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To comply with DMA, WhatsApp and Messenger will become interoperable via Signal protocol (techcrunch.com)

submitted 3 months ago by Mysteriarch@slrpnk.net to c/technology@beehaw.org

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[-] smeg@feddit.uk 115 points 3 months ago

Meta ... can’t guarantee “what a third-party provider does with sent or received messages.”

I'm more concerned with what the first-party provider is doing with my sent or received messages when that first-party is Facebook!

[-] unrelatedkeg@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 3 months ago

Meta ... can’t guarantee “what a third-party provider does with sent or received messages.”

We (Meta) can guarantee that we do all the bad stuffs to your data!

[-] PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz 89 points 3 months ago

Please Signal, use this opportunity. I really want to be on Signal AAAAH

[-] Fartsival@lemmy.sdf.org 76 points 3 months ago

They have already announced that they will not be interoperable with insecure messaging apps unfortunately.

[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 34 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Signal absolutely should not interoperate with other data-mining software.

And they won't, for the same reason they removed SMS (no insecure messaging options).

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 months ago

That's so short sided. Signal is useless if all your contacts only use WhatsApp.

[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 15 points 3 months ago

It's not useless. It has a very specific use that does not coincide with interoperability with data-mining corporations.

[-] jherazob@beehaw.org 7 points 3 months ago

It also does not coincide with most people

[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 13 points 3 months ago

It doesn't have to. It does, however, have to remain private.

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[-] KrokanteBamischijf@feddit.nl 8 points 3 months ago

Yeah I believe this to be a fallacy. If all your contacts use WhatsApp, they still haven't grasped the concept of installing two applications side-by-side. Or they don't fully understand why people are using signal over WhatsApp. If you fail both of those, congratulations, you've failed to be a self-aware tech user and you're now demoted to a braindead consumer.

I know, mind blowing right? Point is, society in general should not accept others forcing you to keep the WhatsApp monopoly in tact, which is exactly what's happening here.

It will take some time but eventually adoption will spread, even among your contacts. It's just a matter of critical mass, and there are some pretty compelling features within Signal that make it a worthy replacement.

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[-] flora_explora@beehaw.org 32 points 3 months ago

Why not convince people to use Signal as well? Even my family has a group chat on Signal. Of course, it's a slow move with most people sticking to non-open chats. But it's worth the effort I would say.

[-] variants@possumpat.io 16 points 3 months ago

Yeah after two years even my parents and brother are on signal plus most of my close friends, the rest I just use regular sms

[-] InfiniWheel@lemmy.one 16 points 3 months ago

Most of the world doesn't use SMS, they use WhatsApp. Plus, SMS is even worse than WhatsApp for privacy and security. And stopping using WhatsApp in most of the world is like not using email, so no "I don't have WhatsApp, you can only contact me through signal" is possible.

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[-] evident5051@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago

The inability to use it on two different phones kills it for me.

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 3 months ago

Eh, my missus insisted we use Signal, but it's just flat out not as reliable. It misses messages very occasionally and it's always at the worst possible time.

Like I get that it's a tiny bit more private than Whatsapp, but I'm not running a terror cell or a paedo ring over here. I just want to know if she wants anything from the shop.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 3 months ago

It's private and you can verify that, not to mention it's non-profit. WhatsApp claims to be private but Meta has broken promises before and doesn't let us look at source code. It's not a "tiny bit"

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 9 points 3 months ago

Classic "No thing to hide, nothing to fear."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument#Criticism

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[-] jherazob@beehaw.org 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I dislike when they say in news clips that Signal represents the “current gold standard” for E2EE chats, it doesn't, Signal is a helluva lot better than the commercial stuff that mines user data but there's stuff like SimpleX Chat that doesn't leak even metadata because it doesn't have it.

Still, this is a good thing, these megacorps have their iron grip on people because they have raised walls around their services making it painful for people to move to a different service, tearing down those walls can only help us all.

[-] shrugal@lemm.ee 14 points 3 months ago

A standard is also about broad adoption though, so I don't think you can call SimpleX a standard yet.

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[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 16 points 3 months ago

Does this mean third party apps will be able to interact with whatsapp?

[-] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

only when the service specifically requests it and agrees to Whatsapp's terms.

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[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Meta says that it will only allow third-party developers to use another protocol besides Signal, “if they are able to demonstrate it offers the same security guarantees as Signal.”

If matrix finally finishes implementing MLS, maybe they could convince meta to use it.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[-] tesseract@beehaw.org 6 points 3 months ago

Last time they touched an open chat protocol, they hung it out to dry. That was XMPP. That's why more than half of the fediverse is reluctant or outright hostile to federate with anything meta.

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[-] Kir@feddit.it 14 points 3 months ago

Would this mean I could finally ditch what's app and use only Signal?

[-] nachtigall@feddit.de 54 points 3 months ago

No, Signal announced they won’t implement interoperable messaging.

[-] DavidGarcia@feddit.nl 14 points 3 months ago

kind of dumb they could get huge market share

[-] anlumo@feddit.de 39 points 3 months ago

Yeah, this worked so well for XMPP when everybody federated with Gmail chat.

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[-] muhyb@programming.dev 33 points 3 months ago

It's not. There is no privacy if you send your message to Whatsapp servers.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 26 points 3 months ago

There's even less privacy if I have to have the WhatsApp app installed on my phone to send that message.

[-] InfiniWheel@lemmy.one 13 points 3 months ago

You have the big plus of not having the WhatsApp app installed and snooping around with all those permissions it has.

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[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 14 points 3 months ago

Signal does not care about "market share", they're a non-profit.

[-] ViciousTurducken@lemmy.one 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Them being nonprofit has nothing to do with the pursuit of marketshare. Plenty of nonprofits want to maximize marketshare. Them being nonprofit means they are mission-driven.

And what is that mission?

Per the Signal Foundation's website:

Protect free expression and enable secure global communication through open source privacy technology.

[-] helenslunch@feddit.nl 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Them being nonprofit has nothing to do with the pursuit of marketshare.

Um, of course it does? LOL

Them being nonprofit means they are mission-driven.

And what is that mission?

Let's talk about what the opposite of their mission is: Mainly operating as a source of data collection and revenue for a corporate surveillance and advertising agency.

Do they want more users? Sure. Are they going to compromise on their core principles out of convenience for their users? Abso-fuckin-lutely not.

There's also the opposite to consider: that users would decide to use WhatsApp instead of Signal because they can, which then puts you in the uncomfortable position I find myself in often where I have to tell people I'm not accepting their messages from insecure platforms.

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[-] spdrmx@beehaw.org 13 points 3 months ago

Not if signal doesn’t want to support WhatsApp, and I don’t think they’re going to unfortunately :(

[-] aberrate_junior_beatnik@midwest.social 11 points 3 months ago

Is there a reason this requirement doesn't apply to iMessage as well?

[-] penquin@lemm.ee 28 points 3 months ago

I've read somewhere that iMessage wasn't considered "big enough" to be considerate a monopoly. Which is bullshit if you ask me.

[-] WaterSword@discuss.tchncs.de 59 points 3 months ago

To be fair here in Europe I know no one who uses iMessage.

[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 48 points 3 months ago

Kinda true in Europe though. Don't know anyone who uses iMessage, it's pretty much irrelevant. I know the situation in the US is quite different, but ultimately they don't regulate for the US market.

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[-] InfiniWheel@lemmy.one 20 points 3 months ago

Its only big in the US, most of the planet only sees iMessage as that borderline useless app Apple bundles in their phones.

[-] penquin@lemm.ee 8 points 3 months ago

It's annoying as fuck when I message my wife a video of our kids, it looks like dog shit on her iPhone. I have to instead send it on Whatsapp or signal. I hate apple

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago

That's because you're using SMS, that's not the fault of the messaging app. Using a third party messaging app is the correct way to go, it's encrypted, supports group chats, and bigger messages.

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[-] darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 months ago

I don't think it's ever happened to me that anyone told me that it was inconvenient for them that I didn't have iMessage, compared to pretty much weekly exclamations of "But why can't you just use WhatsApp like everyone else!?"

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[-] heluecht@pirati.ca 9 points 3 months ago

@Mysteriarch I deeply hope that there will be some connection to Matrix in the future.