this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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I understand a fantasy and a one time thing like tipping on a guys night out at a strip club, but some of these guys think they are in a relationship with someone they will never meet and don't even know their real name or life details.

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[–] punkwalrus@lemmy.world 169 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Well, they may like the attention and validation it brings. I knew someone who was asexual that had a lot of dotcom money. He loved to go to Vegas and gamble. He knew the house was stacked against him. He knew that the girls who sat on his lap only liked him for his money. He still loved the attention he got when he tipped big. I saw him tip a waiter $200 on a $150 meal. He LOVED it. And why?

"I used to be poor. I was a nobody. Now I make people happy with my money, and I feel good about myself."

Can't beat that.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 51 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

This is going to sound weird but I kinda get it.

I'm not rich at all. But I have a really high paying job. And I tip 25-40% because I used to work at restaurants and coffee shops if they are mildly pleasant. During the holidays, I easily drop 100% tips at like a small sandwich shop.

I'm definitely part of the problem with tipping. But it makes me feel good to give a small coffee worker $5 for their hard work.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago (21 children)

You're not at all part of the problem. The problem is entirely concentrated in the employers' unwillingness to pay workers a living wage. It's not like they'd start if you stopped tipping; they'd be legally required to backfill some of the shortfall, but not enough that the person could actually survive.

Rest assured. You are not a part of the problem.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As someone who has done tipped labor before: the bigger problem is the entitlement of the people who come to expect tips and negatively judge anyone who doesn't.

[–] 1847953620@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I once got shat on for saying I reduce my typical tip of 25%+ down to 15% for waiters who were particularly bad at interactions, in a thread where a bunch of waiters were patting themselves on the back for forcing bad-but-fast interactions that allowed them to give the appearance of service.

Such as avoiding eye contact, ignoring gestures from a distance, and leaving a table fast to give them as little time as possible to put in follow-up requests, or waiting until someone's mouth was full or with a glass up so they couldn't elaborate, and some other stuff I don't care to remember.

I was called "shitty" for "witholding tips".

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I would not feel good about myself in that situation but I guess I understand...

For me it's a slightly disgusting to pay money to another human being for fake attention, it's very superficial and animal-like. But I can see how it can make some guys happy.

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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 80 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

It's always been this way and yes they do.

In the 50's, women artists were literally expected to hide their partners. Dolly Parton famously got married against the wishes of her managers/producers, because she was a bad bitch who wasn't going to be pushed around and denied her own life. She was a rarity at the time.

The number of OF models who have boyfriends who never appear on cam is high. This isn't new for women in porn, this has pretty much how it has always operated. Men don't like their fantasy being destroyed by pesky details like a boyfriend.

In Kpop its definitely still a thing, and it seems like the young male fans flip the fuck out when they find out one of the women they're idolizing already has a boyfriend.

It's capitalism, baby. It teaches young men that human relationships are a financial transaction and nothing more. They absolutely do think the money they spend means something, even if they aren't an outright Incel.

Many of them will end up furious eventually, once it becomes clear they will never make it anywhere with this woman.

*shrugs

[–] Fondots@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago

A few years back on Reddit I remember stumbling my way into a comment thread discussing some camgirl or Instagram model, or "influencer" or something along those lines. The OP was a gif of her bouncing her boobs (and I'm not gonna lie, I clicked into the thread because boobs)

Overall the comments were pretty much what you'd expect, but one dude in particular stood out to me.

IIRC, someone made a comment about how her boyfriend was a lucky man or something to that effect, someone else commented that they had heard she was a lesbian, and that's where this particular weirdo came in, saying something essentially like "nuh-uh, I talked to her cam-to-cam and she's definitely straight."

Like it genuinely never occurred to this person that someone might not be exactly who they present themselves as online.

Now I cannot claim to know anything about that girl's personal life, she might be gay, she might be straight, she might be neither, but I can easily think of probably a dozen reasons off the top of my head why she might want to hide her sexuality, whatever it may be, from some stranger she was chatting with on the internet, ranging of fear of harassment to trying to get money out of him.

I tried to explain that to him, and he was like "yeah, I get it, but I talked to her and she's a really genuine person"

Everything just went in his one ear and right out the other.

I hope that dude never made his way into a strip club, he'd get talked into so paying for many champagne rooms and then probably go home and brag about his new girlfriend.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's capitalism, baby. It teaches young men that human relationships are a ~~financial~~ transaction and nothing more.

I really notice that idea in movies from the 80s and 90s. The love interest leaps into the dude's arms at the end. They didn't know each other an hour ago, but she's the reward for the hero's success.

[–] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

That's where I learned from, and I learned the hard way that the crazy antics in those movies just get you a restraining order!

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago

There is nothing positive that comes from the existence of simps.

[–] money_loo@lemmy.world 60 points 11 months ago

People be lonely, yo.

[–] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 57 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I've thought about it. It's tempting because it's simple. When you spend time and energy on your wife and she doesn't give anything back, it's very lonely. A cam girl is simple. Money goes in, attention comes out. It's not exactly what I want but it's got a higher success rate that what I've got now.

[–] undeffeined@lemmy.ml 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sorry to hear that, hope you can find a way out of that situation.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Can't afford it. I can't afford the aftermath, keep my kids, and keep my sanity. I've thought about it.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Thank god I dont have kids, and my wife isnt a bloodsucker. We tentatively agreed in principle to a divorce yesterday, and one of the first things she said was "Do we need lawyers or can we just sign the divorce application and be done with it?"

I hope that its over soon, quickly and cheaply. We are both so tired.

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[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fair enough. Wish you the best of luck. You seem to have a good heart. You deserve better.

[–] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago
[–] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I wish you strength, and hope you'll find a good solution. Maybe it would be worth a thought of spending the money for couples therapy.

[–] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've been asking for years. I can schedule an appointment, but they have to show up.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Hey can we spend some time together?

Get death glare

Fine, go back to your 9 hour streaming marathon. Sorry to bother you.

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Quite a lot of the people that donate money to camgirls/OnlyFans models have learning difficulties. My special needs brother-in-law gets disability allowance from the state every month because he is too disabled to work and still managed to rack up a 4000 pound debt giving money to these "content creators".

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[–] PeachMan@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

I'm sure many have that fantasy. I'd guess that others understand that it's just a tease, and have enough disposable income that they don't care. Same as strip clubs.

[–] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 25 points 11 months ago

I've seen folks do the same with people who stream games.

An acknowledgement of your own existence is a powerful thing. I get it.

[–] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Grant Amato shot his father, mother, and brother Cody in the head at their home in Seminole County, Florida, while attempting to stage it as a murder-suicide committed by his brother before fleeing the residence.

Before the murders occurred, Amato had developed an infatuation with Bulgarian model and cam girl Silviya Ventsislavova (Bulgarian: Силвия Венциславова), who went by the alias "Silvie" online. Amato used some of his father's and brother's money that amounted to $200,000 to pay to attend her webcam sessions.

I'm not sure how that counts but it does add texture to the conversation.

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[–] half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Parasocial relationships are fucked and there's lots of chuds out there hyperfocusing on all the wrong things.

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 19 points 11 months ago

A lot of it is buying the illusion/experience. They are helping that girl get back into veterinary school or are virtually rubbing her clit by making panties vibrate or whatever.

Also, it is generally not the same whale every night. Sometimes it is, but most models have a set of regulars.

And the other aspect to remember is the good old audience plant. Think of it like starting a hype train on twitch or getting the meter most of the way to the exposed titties goal or whatever. The idea is a friend or site employee uses cheap tokens to encourage others to use real ones.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca 19 points 11 months ago

I don’t think the type of person that gives cam girls tons of money is self-aware enough to realize the model doesn’t care if they are still breathing 10 minutes after the money hits their account.

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 19 points 11 months ago

They might think that, and they might be right. There have been multiple accounts from sec workers who feel friendly to their clients.

Think about any place you go regularly: you might have a friendly relationship with the cashier/waiter/barista/bartender/whoever. That relationship only exists because you are a customer, but that doesn’t mean they don’t feel genuinely friendly to you. When I’ve worked in service jobs, there were plenty of people I only interacted with because I had to, and there were a handful of people I genuinely liked seeing. Just because someone is selling images of their naked body and a sense of intimacy doesn’t mean the dynamic is fundamentally different on their side. For the clients, there is often a misunderstanding of what the boundaries are, which is why many sex workers are extremely direct with people.

[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They are lonely and desperate for any kind of interaction with another human. Because sex work is illegal and dangerous, it creates a market for this kind of stuff. It's sad. People need attention, touch, and love from other humans as much as they need food and water. But many people are unattractive and/or socially inept... but do have some money. And society is largely cruel and heartless towards outsiders. It's hard for most to accept, but many factors outside of a person's control can force them into a lonely life of rejection and non-acceptance by average folks. People find all kinds of things to fill these voids. Paying cam models is just one of many coping mechanisms, and maybe not as self-destructive as drugs, booze, food, etc.

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[–] thantik@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've got a friend who's into strip clubs, attempted to get me into them. They're basically thinly veiled brothels. He absolutely believes that the women are into him. 100%

[–] Fondots@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I used to go to strip clubs occasionally, I never had the delusion that any of the girls were into me, but for me that was kind of part of the fun.

It removes all of the pressure, you don't have to worry about fucking up your chances with any of them because you never had any chances to begin with, and as long as you're not a total creep and can keep the singles coming, you're going to have a steady stream of pretty girls coming around and acting flirty with you, laughing at your jokes, generally paying attention to you, etc. and that can feel pretty nice.

Some people can get weird about it and have an unhealthy mental idea about what their relationship with the strippers actually is, but that's not limited to strippers either, pretty sure that just about anyone who's worked in a bar or restaurant for any length of time has probably had that one regular customer who was a little too buddy-buddy with you and seemed to think that you were their best friend even though you kind of hate their guts and are just nice to them because that's your fucking job.

That doesn't mean you can't have the occasional genuine interactions with them, it's kind of hard not to, at the end of the day we're social creatures who want to connect with one another, but that doesn't necessarily change the fundamental nature of your customer/service-provider relationship.

[–] qooqie@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I assume it’s a form of the buzzword/phrase “parasocial relationship” and some if not most do actually think they have a chance. No real idea, but you can definitely see it even on twitch with female viewers and their rich viewers throwing money at them

[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

I once signed up to an only fans I fancied just to see what the hubbub was all about. I paid my monthly fee which was like 10 or 11 bucks. I had access to her whole catalog including live shows. I managed to catch one of those live shows and by the end of it, only about 30 minutes long, she managed to get 800 bucks in tips.

People were tipping her 200 300 hundreds bucks at a time as she diddled her self with various implements.

Insanity. There is literally limitless free porn in this genre out there. There is absolutely no reason to pay for any of this.

And yet... There you have it. This woman made close to 1000 dollars for doing something she'd probably do anyway.

[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I like spending my money on beautiful women. Personally this is something I like to do in person, for someone I actually know. I guess I can kind of see how somebody might fulfil a similar drive virtually, but it seems very odd to me.

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[–] ByGourou@sh.itjust.works 11 points 11 months ago

Parasocial relationships works both ways. Of course you have exceptions and it depend on the individual, but they usually like each others.

[–] guyrocket@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

I hope not. But many of them probably do think the model "likes" them. And I assume in most situations the model is kind to the customer. And that is all it takes with some lonely guys.

I knew someone years ago that went on a couple dates with some girl and was just DEVASTATED when she broke up with him. Like ugly crying about how "perfect" she was. There are plenty of unloved guys around who are pretty desparate for anything that even looks like a relationship.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Do people who buy lotto tickets expect to become billionaires? Do high school athletes sacrifice their bodies and their futures to some day get their shot to go pro? Do artists starve while hoping to one day be discovered and become famous?

Hope is an irrational, self-destructive concept, reinforced by the fact that nobody who ever became one of the lucky few gave up because the odds were against them.

My only comment would be "dream bigger, maybe."

[–] Nerrad@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can think of worse ways to waste money.

[–] Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

Like donating to political parties?

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I doubt most do. I haven't but I get it. Someone listens to you and talks nicely to you for a few minutes can be pretty appealing.

[–] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At the end of the day, they are paying for a dream that makes them happy. Would it be better to find happiness another way sure, but the world is a shitty place.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Or more likely, a dream they hope will make them happy, and maybe does give them some nice feelings before eventually crushing those feelings brutally.

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[–] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 11 months ago

Parasocial relationships are very real.

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