this post was submitted on 31 Jan 2025
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Buy it for Life

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A place to share practical, durable and quality made products that are made to last, with an emphasis on upcycled and sustainable products!

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Hi there, I came here to the BIFL Lemmy out of suspicion that the reddit posts are just unlabelled marketing, and I was wondering the possibility of sourcing goods that are more to a BIFL standard? In my area, second hand goods tend to be really quite poor in quality (reselling fast fashion) or otherwise not present, and I have not inherited anything that does last. So I would apprecite advice or reccomendations for finding goods at a BIFL standard. I was also wondering if maybe there would be anyone with good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production so that I may be able to tailor what I need without having to buy from the poor selection aforementioned, does anyone know of any of this?

TL:DR I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as 'BIFL' has been enshittified, and would like advice on being able to search for sustainable goods for a local area (not specified because I'm hoping for advice with searching, not exactly for specific reccs)

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[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 9 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

So there are a few generalities that hold together for BIFL.

  • First

BIFL is going to be for 20-25 years not 69-80. No consistently used item beyond cast iron cookware will last. If you never use an item they are all bifl.

  • Second

Less complicated the items last longer I bought a really bottom of the line kenmore fridge when I needed a fridge and didn't have money. It's about 20 years old, keeps ice outdoors at 90 and have never been repaired. (who am I kidding it's 90 indoors) Castiron pans and wrenches will last multiple lifetimes.

  • Third

Design matters Some styles of things just are more durable. My fridge above was picked because consumer reports reported the freezer top style was the more reliable. The worst of the top freezers in durability was better then the best side by side fridge. Material choice is part of design. Oiled canvas is great for an outer coat and terrible for underwear.

  • Forth

The more repairable items last longer You can basically resole shoes and boots for ever as long as you take care of the uppers. Things made of mostly common off the shelf parts can last longer than custom high performance items because of part availability.

Most importantly

How well you learn to maintain and repair items is the greatest indication of BIFL. Cast iron is crap if you don't maintain it. Even expensive knives dull if you don't sharpen them.

[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Learning how things are made is a great asset in finding out what is actually BIFL.

I have ikea furniture that is BIFL, because I learned how quality furniture is made and pick and chose the ikea items that had lasting design for the application. I also bought a bottle of wood glue and clamps to glue up and assemble the pieces.

I chose a manual rotary lawn mower because I can service it, it was made from steel and is a 100 year old design. It'll be bifl only if I am willing to pay more than the price of a new one to have it sharpened in a few years.

My oiled leather work boots are BIFL because I keep oiling them, get them patched when they wear though and pay for new soles. I have payed many times over the purchase price in soles.

[–] ptc075@lemmy.zip 84 points 1 day ago (3 children)

My tiny contribution here is to look things aimed at commercial use, not consumer grade. For example, next time you need to buy a can opener, buy it from a restaurant supply shop instead of Amazon or Walmart.

[–] orvorn@slrpnk.net 35 points 1 day ago (9 children)

Same with electronics - instead of a smart TV from Amazon get an industrial TV from B&H or similar (they're the kind used in store displays like the menu at burger king etc)

[–] raptore39@lemm.ee 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Bonus is they likely won't have "smart" features or AI

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 17 points 1 day ago

Yoooo, that's the best! Fuck smart tv's sideways

[–] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Specifically, if you want just a tv monitor display(IE no smart tv but also sometimes no speakers or even no remote) you’re looking for what is often called a “Professional TV” usually listed under a brands commercial signage section.

For example: https://www.lg.com/us/business/digital-signage/professional-tvs you can also often purchase directly from a manufacturer these days.

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[–] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And when doing home repairs don't get contractor grade. It's the worst quality possible. I do extensive amounts of cooking and most of my stuff has been from restaurants supply stores, antique shops or handmade by me.

[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 4 points 19 hours ago

Go to contractor specific trade stores. So go to a place that specializes in plumbing contractors. It will never also have drywall and electrical.

The prices will be MUCH higher and they typically won't help much/at all with how to do a repair. The parts will however be much higher quality.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Your first two sentences were promising, but then the following sentences didn't lead me to where I thought you were taking me, haha

So if "contractor-grade" sucks for home repairs, what grade is actually good?

[–] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Unfortunately most items don't have standardized labeling. You can frequently find "contractor grade" or 'builder grade" listed but you won't find much beyond that because no one wants to put 'retail grade" on anything. You have to look at the items. Does it look like metal but it's plastic? Trash.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

It's a bit like how you'll see things advertised as being made of "aircraft grade" aluminum.

I'm an aircraft repairman, there is no such thing as "aircraft grade" at least in the United States; the aviation industry does not maintain its own standards for metallurgy, it uses SAE standards, and a lot of different alloys get used in aircraft for various applications. Sheet metal skin and structures is usually 2024-T3, you'll see 6061 or 6065 in castings, hell they make pure aluminum rivets for fastening placards. So most things that say "aircraft grade" on them usually mean they're 6061-T6 or similar. which is legal for use in aircraft construction if its properties are called for in the design. It's just some wank they can legally get away with putting on retail packaging.

[–] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

For me aircraft grade aluminum is right up there with space age technology. The space age was 50 years ago.

Ugh I always hated that phrase. Like, space age technology is ball point pens, Tang, and those MPET blankets you find in first aid kits. Oh and freeze dried ice cream.

It really really does not mean shit at this point.

[–] rosahaj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 day ago

I've heard similar advice around purchasing restauraunt quantity plastic wrap, so that's great advice!

[–] CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I use Goodonyou.eco to check out fashion and beauty brand's ethical standards. It's not perfect but it gives a pretty good 'quick view' of whether they're dog shit or not.

In terms of BIFL, other than my Sunbeam Coffee filter machine, we've taken to buying second hand or locally made furniture.

[–] rosahaj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago

thank you for the site suggestion :) I always struggle to track down the ethics of companies, which leaves me in a kind of choice paralysis.

Seems sunbeam is pretty popular around these parts haha, happy cake day by the by

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as ‘BIFL’ has been enshittified

Sadly, I'm sure this happens a lot in the name of "marketing".

There are a few things that I look at to help ensure the best chance of getting something that's BIFL:

  • Does the company or product have a good track record? I'd trust my Leatherman to be BIFL over whatever no-name clone you see on Aliexpress.

  • Does the company offer a lifetime warranty (or one that's 20+ years)? If so, has the company been around for decades?

  • Is the item repairable and easy to maintain? Even if something isn't marketed as BIFL, you can likely extend the product's life by decades through simple maintenance and care.

  • Does the item have any built-in planned obsolescence features? Proprietary built-in battery? Components that are glued in place? Sealed shut so you can't open it without destroying the item? etc...

  • Is the product simple or complex? The more complex, the more likely it will fail, but this isn't always the case if you are able to maintain/repair components.

  • Textiles can be tricky, but not impossible to keep going for decades if the quality is good enough.

Sadly, I do think that many companies aren't interested in making BIFL products because PROFITS!!! I think the market for BIFL will be more with custom fabricators and small businesses.

[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Sadly, I do think that many companies aren’t interested in making BIFL products because PROFITS!!! I think the market for BIFL will be more with custom fabricators and small businesses.>

I think it just has more to do with how much it costs to make a products that is BIFL vs features. Some features are nice to have but just can't be made in a way that is BIFL. Think of super-soft and comfortable jeans. They wear much more quickly than the cardboard style fabric. Truly non-stick pans simply wear out.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 2 points 13 hours ago

For sure. Some things really can't be made to last forever due to their function.

But every attempt should be made to make things easy to repair, or recycle when it's at the end of its lifecycle.

Baking in planned obsolescence is what we tend to see these days, and that's a decision by the company to do that for nothing more than profits.

I wish governments would force manufacturers to make products that last longer than they currently do. Even if they frame it as an environmental initiative.

For instance, non-removable batteries should be so rare that it would be hard to find a product made with one.

[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One thing I would watch out for is "has the company been purchased by another company?". If the answer is yes, then the product has almost certainly gone to shit and you should definitely not rely on older reviews, etc.

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[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Does the company offer a lifetime warranty

jansport backpacks. but when i sent them a backpack i'd been using since the 90s that started coming apart, they replaced it with the shittiest cheapo version they have

so unless the product only has one version of a thing, don't be surprised when they replace your $80 thing with the $20 version

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[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 day ago

i think one thing to keep in mind with BIFL is that it's gonna be painfully expensive, and we tend to have a skewed perspective since a lot of what people buy these days is second hand and thus nowhere near the original sale value.

Like has been said for new BIFL stuff you want to look for business/industrial stuff, or handmade things from passionate people, which is not cheap.

I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect most of your things to be BIFL unless you can get second hand/inherited things, i'd say think about what things are most important to you and try to invest your money into those few things and find ways to make everything else as minimal and sustainable (and cheap) as possible.
For example people in the medieval era and before generally just wore simple leather turnshoes in the warm seasons, which were fully expected to wear out and they'd need to slap together a new pair every now and then. But that's fine because literally all you need to make them is some crummy leather scraps!

[–] cpkwtf@ttrpg.network 5 points 1 day ago

American Giant (i think) grows and mills their cotton in America and the garments are made in the US as well. Last I checked. I don’t wanna say it’s BIFL, but I have an American giant hoodie I bought probably 9 years ago that I still pull out every fall and wear until spring. It’s got holes in the elbow patches, but the elbows are double or triple layered, so it’s still warm.

[–] ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 39 points 1 day ago (4 children)

To a large extent I tend to think the same way I was taught with cars, simple is sturdy. Skip the fancy features and WiFi widgets and you'll replace things a lot less often. It's not always practical, but I'm willing to bet my cast iron cookware is going to be in roughly the same shape far longer than some stamped sheet metal with anti stick coating and a glass lid.

[–] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

People frequently ask me about appliance advice. I always told him to buy the absolute basic model. Every extra feature is one that can break.

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[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production

There largely isn't any of this. There's really very, very little in the way of locally-sourced textiles, and what there is is going to be art rather than functional. I don't know where you live, but in the US, there are only a handful of mills that remain, and you'd need to be placing a mill order (e.g., hundreds or thousands of yards of fabric) in order to do business with them. OTOH, there are often local tailors that will be able to order high-quality textiles to make bespoke garments for you. The downside is that this is REALLY expensive. For instance, I'm a bit slow at patternmaking, and not the best at fitting, and if I charged only $25/hr, you'd be looking at around $100 for the initial sloper, and probably another $150 to tune the fit. From there, patterning for a specific garment can take a day or more, depending on what you want, and that's not including cost of materials and sewing time. For a bespoke suit, you're starting at about $5000 from an experienced tailor.

That aside, there are certainly a large number of things that are buy once, cry once. Take kitchen knives; if you buy a Yoshimi Kato nakiri, a good set of Shapton glass stones (...which, TBF, will probably cost well over $1000), and take care of it, it will easily last your entire life. If you buy furniture from highly skilled carpenters, you'll likely be buying something that will last over a century as long as it's not abused; my grandfather made Craftsman-style furniture and cabinetry in the 20s-30s, and I know for certain that a number of his pieces are still around and in use. But buying the kind of quality and craftsmanship that will allow certain products to last for a lifetime is NOT cheap. While expensive doesn't always mean quality, high-quality is almost never inexpensive.

[–] LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

On the topic of knifes, my cheap store brand knife lasts for 5 years now without ever seeing a sharpening tool. I think knifes are just hard to fuck up.

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

It depends on what you want from a knife.

I want a knife that will take and hold an edge, will resist chipping and setting into a bend, but is also fairly easy to re-sharpen. For what I want, san mai forging using plain carbon steels gives nearly the best results. If you want a knife that will be extremely tough and resistant to rusting or staining, plain carbon steels would be a very poor choice. My favorite vegetable knife needs to be cleaned immediately and oiled lightly after every use, and is absolutely not dishwasher safe. Most people would prefer a stainless steel construction over a knife like that.

[–] LH0ezVT@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 hours ago

Different people have different needs. All I want is chopping onions and not worrying about it too much. If you have different needs, then I guess my knife would be pretty bad for you.

[–] Chee_Koala@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have a 12 euro kitchen knife from 2005 that I sharpened twice, and a 8 dollar kitchen knife from Ikea that I never sharpened that's from 2012, and they both still work fine. I thought I would be sharpening every couple months, but these kitchen knives.

I'm not cutting paper or cans with them, but they cut though tomato so it's not even that bad. I'm on your team, I think knives are done, we did it, the tech is fully matured

[–] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 1 points 16 hours ago

What I'm looking for in a knife is shaving cleanly and easily; a knife can be fairly dull and still cut a tomato.

One test I've seen is rolling up a single sheet of paper into a tube, standing it on it's end, and then cutting diagonally slowly with your kitchen knife. You should be able to cut the tube of paper cleanly, without knocking it over. If not, your knife should be honed or stropped.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was told the rotring 600 was bifl. Nah I put it through the ringer and it didn't last a year. The metal pusher thing just flew off because it's poorly designed.

[–] Mayonnaise@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I got one yesterday and I’m thinking about returning it. It feels very underwhelming. I expected higher quality.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 2 points 15 hours ago

I think it got enshitified when Newell bought them out. The older rotrings might be better quality. I have two of their pens because customer service sent me one for free because I said it broke off. It's still a nice weighted pen and I still use it. I just try to be nice with it now. I even got a few of my friends to get the rotring pen and pencils

[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 25 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

I think it depends on exactly what item you're looking for. Plenty of vintage coats out there, I just bought two 40+ yo military wool coats this season since my old jacket is wearing out and isn't that stylish. There's probably local jeans manufacturers that also recycle fabric, like Jeansverket in Sweden. Rose Anvil on YouTube is a good source for finding boots that will last decades.

There is definitely enshittification out there, but it's not impossible to find BIFL out there.

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[–] JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Throwing in a little odd advice for the secondhand scene - even if the shops are bad, I've had some good luck with estate sales and cleanouts (where a family or realtor basically opens the home to anyone who'll cary stuff away and save them the trouble and cost of throwing it out). It can feel kinda bad, picking through stuff in that context, but we've saved a bunch of nice old tools and kitchen stuff that way, and the houses generally have everything else you might need for a house. Personally I think the best BIFL stuff is old and made before they really perfected enshitifying their products.

The cleanouts I've been to we found through postings on our local free groups (which I also really recommend) or word of mouth, but I used to know some folks who went to them professionally, looking for merchandise for their own businesses, so they must be advertised somewhere normal people would find them too.

[–] rosahaj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Ok, I will try to find more dying people in my area, thank you!

[–] plzExplainNdetail@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

You can also search for estate sales proxibid.com

[–] rosahaj@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 hours ago

seems a useful site. shame it's US-only by the looks of it, though.

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[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

BIFL is certainly possible, and there are some things that aren't for life but still last a long time.

Unfortunately you really need to look for them.

It's unfortunate that product reviews don't really focus on this kind of thing.

Another annoying aspect of searching for BIFL things is that (and I have no evidence of this, it's just a feeling), whenever I search for BIFL things and search results take me to BIFL communities, it's always the same companies mentioned, to the point where it often feels like company astroturfing.

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