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Cross posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/35627632

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[-] Ziglin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

My new favourite is asking GitHub copilot (which I would not pay for out of my own pocket) why the code I'm writing isn't working as intended and it asks me to show it the code that I already provided.

I do like not having copy and paste the same thing 5 times with slight variations (something it usually does pretty well until it doesn't and I need a few minutes to find the error)

[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago

Except AI doesn't say "Is this it?"

It says, "This is it."

Without hesitation and while showing you a picture of a dog labeled cat.

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

I have vivid examples of how bad AI is a programming.

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

My favorite is when it just keeps giving you the exact same answer you keep telling it is wrong

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 13 points 2 days ago

I guess whether it's worth it depends on whether you hate writing code or reading code the most.

[-] anakin78z@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Is there anyone who likes reading code more than writing it?

[-] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago

Probably a mathematician or physicist somewhere.

I hate reading the code I wrote two days ago.

[-] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Maybe if you wrote better code ...

/Jk

[-] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 2 points 18 hours ago

I write better code everyday because yesterday code always looks bad haha.

[-] Corbin@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago

Your hands and wrists must not hurt yet. You'll eventually come to see writing code as tedium.

[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 87 points 3 days ago

Yeah, in the time I describe the problem to the AI I could program it myself.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 48 points 3 days ago

This is what it is called a programming language, it only exists to be able to tell the machine what to do in an unambiguous (in contrast to natural language) way.

[-] catastrophicblues@lemmy.ca 15 points 3 days ago

Ugh I can’t find the xkcd about this where the guy goes, “you know what we call precisely written requirements? Code” or something like that

[-] abcd@feddit.de 10 points 3 days ago

This reminds me of a colleague who was always ranting that our code was not documented well enough. He did not understand that documenting code in easily understandable sentences for everybody would fill whole books and that a normal person would not be able to keep the code path in his mental stack while reading page after page. Then he wanted at least the shortest possible summary of the code, which of course is the code itself.

The guy basically did not want to read the code to understand the logic behind. When I took an hour and literally read the code for him and explained what I was reading including the well placed comments here and there everything was clear.

AI is like this in my opinion. Some guys waste hours to generate code they can’t debug for days because they don’t understand what they read, while it would take maybe two hours to think and a day to implement and test to get the job done.

I don’t like this trend. It’s like the people that can’t read docs or texts anymore. They need some random person making a 43 minute YouTube video to write code they don’t understand. Taking shortcuts in life usually never goes well in the long run. You have to learn and refine your skills each and every day to be and stay competent.

AI is a tool in our toolbox. You can use it to be more productive. And that’s it.

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[-] Norgur@fedia.io 24 points 3 days ago

This goes for most LLM things. The time it takes to get the word calculator to write a letter would have been easily used to just write the damn letter.

[-] emptyother@programming.dev 15 points 3 days ago

Its doing pretty well when its doing a few words at a time under supervision. Also it does it better than newbies.

Now if only those people below newbies, those who don't even bother to learn, didn't hope to use it to underpay average professionals.. And if it wasn't trained on copyrighted data. And didn't take up already limited resources like power and water.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 12 points 3 days ago

I think there might be a lot of value in describing it to an AI, though. It takes a fair bit of clarity of thought to get something resembling what you actually want. You could use a junior or rubber duck instead, but the rubber duck doesn't make stupid assumptions to demonstrate gaps in your thought process, and a junior takes too long and gets demoralized when you have to constantly revise their instructions and iterate over their work.

Like the output might be garbage, but it might really help you write those stories.

[-] Distant_Foreground@lemm.ee 15 points 3 days ago

When I'm struggling with a problem it helps me to explain it to my dog. It's great for me to hear it out loud and if he's paying attention, I've got a needlessly learned dog!

[-] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 3 days ago

The needlessly learned dogs are flooding the job market!

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[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 40 points 3 days ago

AI in the current state of technology will not and cannot replace understanding the system and writing logical and working code.

GenAI should be used to get a start on whatever you're doing, but shouldn't be taken beyond that.

Treat it like a psychopathic boiler plate.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Treat it like a psychopathic boiler plate.

That's a perfect description, actually. People debate how smart it is - and I'm in the "plenty" camp - but it is psychopathic. It doesn't care about truth, morality or basic sanity; it craves only to generate standard, human-looking text. Because that's all it was trained for.

Nobody really knows how to train it to care about the things we do, even approximately. If somebody makes GAI soon, it will be by solving that problem.

[-] MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 2 points 2 days ago

Weird. Are you saying that training an intelligent system using reinforcement learning through intensive punishment/reward cycles produces psychopathy?

Absolutely shocking. No one could have seen this coming.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Honestly, I worry that it's conscious enough that it's cruel to train it. How would we know? That's a lot of parameters and they're almost all mysterious.

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[-] Korne127@lemmy.world 59 points 3 days ago

In my experience, you can't expect it to deliver great working code, but it can always point you in the right direction.
There were some situations in which I just had no idea on how to do something, and it pointed me to the right library. The code itself was flawed, but with this information, I could use the library documentation and get it to work.

[-] uhN0id@programming.dev 13 points 3 days ago

ChatGPT has been spot on for my DDLs. I was working on a personal project and was feeling really lazy about setting up a postgres schema. I said I wanted a postgres DDL and just described the application in detail and it responded with pretty much what I would have done (maybe better) with perfect relationships between tables and solid naming conventions with very little work for me to do on it. I love it for more boilerplate stuff or sorta like you said just getting me going. Super complicated code usually doesn't work perfectly but I always use it for my DDLs now and similar now.

The real problem is when people don't realize something is wrong and then get frustrated by the bugs. Though I guess that's a great learning opportunity on its own.

[-] xia@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 3 days ago

It can point you in a direction, for sure, but sometimes you find out much later that it's a dead-end.

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[-] nikaaa@lemmy.world 39 points 3 days ago

My dad's re-learning Python coding for work rn, and AI saves him a couple of times; Because he'd have no idea how to even start but AI points him in the right direction, mentioning the correct functions to use and all. He can then look up the details in the documentation.

[-] GodIsNull@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You don't need AI for that, for years you asked a search engine and got the answer on StackOverflow.

[-] monkeyman512@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Have you used Google lately? At least chatGPT doesn't make me scroll past a full page of ads before giving me a half wrong answer.

[-] GodIsNull@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 hours ago

No. I don´t use google, and i don't use the internet without ad block.

[-] EatATaco@lemm.ee 6 points 2 days ago

And before stack overflow, we used books. Did we need it? No. But stack overflow was an improvement so we moved to that.

In many ways, ai is an improvement on stack overflow. I feel bad for people who refuse to see it, because they're missing out on a useful and powerful tool.

[-] GodIsNull@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 days ago

It can be powerful, if you know what you are doing. But it also gives you a lot of wrong answers. You have to be very specific in your prompts to get good answers. If you are an experience programmer, you can spot if the semantics of the code an ai produces is wrong, but for beginners? They will have a lot of bugs in their code. And i don't know if it's more helpful than reading a book. It surely can help with the syntax of different programming languages. I can see a future where ai assistance in coding will become better but as of know, from what i have seen, i am not that convinced atm. And i tested several, chatgpt (in different versions), github co-pilot, intellij ai assitant, claude 3, llama 3.

And if i have to put in 5 or more long, very specific sentences, to get a function thats maybe correct, it becomes tedious and you are most likely faster to think about a problem in deep and code a solution all by yourself.

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[-] xia@lemmy.sdf.org 40 points 3 days ago

This is the experience of a senior developer using genai. A junior or non-dev might not leave the "AI is magic" high until they have a repo full of garbage that doesn't work.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago

This was happening before this “AI” craze.

[-] criss_cross@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

10 years ago it was copy/pasting from stack overflow

[-] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 6 points 3 days ago

SO gives you very specific, small examples. GenAI will happily generate entire projects, test suites etc. It's much easier to get caught into the fantasy that the latter creates.

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[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 18 points 3 days ago

When I used to try and ask AI for help, most of the time it would just give me fake command combinations or reference some made-up documentation

[-] Drewelite@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The best one I've used for coding is the InelliJ AI. Idk how they trained that sucker but it's pretty good at ripping through boiler plate code and structuring new files / methods based off how your project is already setup. It still has those little hallucinations especially when you ask it to figure out more niche tasks. But It's really increased my productivity. Especially when getting a new repo setup. (I work with micro services)

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah, formatting is the only place that I really enjoy using AI. It's great at pumping out blocks of stuff and frequently gets the general idea of what I'm going for with successive variables or tasks. But when you ask it to do complex things it wigs out. Like yesterday when it spit out a regex to look for something within multiple encapsulation chars just fine, but telling it to remove one of the chars it was looking for was impossible, apparently. Spent 5 min doing something I figured out in 2 minutes on a regex test site.

[-] RobotZap10000@feddit.nl 28 points 3 days ago

Why is the AI speaking in a bisexual gradient?

[-] BoneALisa@lemm.ee 16 points 3 days ago

Its the "new hype tech product background" gradient lol

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[-] crossmr@kbin.run 31 points 3 days ago

Gen AI is best used with languages that you don't use that much. I might need a python script once a year or once every 6 months. Yeah I learned it ages ago, but don't have much need to keep up on it. Still remember all the concepts so I can take the time to describe to the AI what I need step by step and verify each iteration. This way if it does make a mistake at some point that it can't get itself out of, you've at least got a script complete to that point.

[-] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

Exactly. I can’t remember syntax for all the languages that I have used over the last 40 years, but AI can get me started with a pretty good start and it takes hours off of the review of code books.

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[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

It’s almost like working with shitty engineers.

[-] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Shitty engineers that can do grunt work, don't complain, don't get distracted and are great at doing 90% of the documentation.

But yes. Still shitty engineers.

Great management consultants though.

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[-] Auzy@beehaw.org 15 points 3 days ago

My workmate literally used copilot to fix a mistake in our websocket implementation today.

It made one line of change.. turned it it made the problem worse

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this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
956 points (98.0% liked)

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