cross-posted from: https://lemmy.one/post/27858506

This post serves as notice that Lemmy.one will be shutting down in 90 days.

Unfortunately, the moderation features in Lemmy never progressed to the point required to continue maintaining this service, and Lemmy simply does not have the userbase to justify the cost of this service. Myself and the moderation team apologize for the inconvenience this will cause.

This is sad news. Hopefully the comms can migrate to other smaller instances.

Edit: just saw this

as this is a fairly active community we just wanted to let you know that this community is no longer federating with Lemmy.World due to defederation from lemmy.one for lack of moderation.

Our announcement can be found here: https://lemmy.world/post/28173093

We recommend migrating to a community on an instance that is maintained better.

I guess it's been an issue. I think the lemmy.one meant they needed better administration features

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[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 89 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (13 children)

Everyone thinks the moderation/admin features need to be improved. I'm curious which improvements people are really needing. Whenever I see big complaints about it (beehaw, lemmy.one) I never see any specifics. Link the filed Github issues for them otherwise the feature requests don't really exist, and I'd like to give them thumbs up reactions so they get prioritized more.

Once I saw Beehaw give an actual specific complaint, and it was fixed in a hotfix (v0.18.5) within a couple weeks. Of course Beehaw never updated to that version anyways.

[–] kersploosh@sh.itjust.works 41 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Here are a few things off the top of my head.

Deleted accounts leave orphaned posts/comments, which still exist on the site but can be difficult for admins to find and remove: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/5525

Private message reports don't go to all the right people: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4436

We should be getting some vote analytics in the future, which will be great. Lemmy seems to have a significant number of vote manipulation accounts that only exist to upvote/downvote in unison, but they are currently hard to find. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/5669

I really should open an issue to improve the reports queue. It's tolerable if you mod an individual community or a smaller instance, but it is unusable as an admin on a really big instance like .world. There is no way to search or sort the reports. You can filter by posts or comments but then it only shows you 20 entries, which is a weird and unhelpful limitation. All reports have equal priority; there is no mechanism for users to flag reports that should be escalated to admins. And, if something is heavily reported, there is no way to batch resolve the reports after you address the issue.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 43 points 4 days ago (8 children)

A built in auto mod is the largest thing. A way to say that this common pattern is spam and to block it system wide, right now we just don't have that. A nice to have stretch goal would be to use some model to fight actual gore or csam material, which just doesn't exist. A moderation dashboard would be great to see users with their comment history, vote trends, high level to see if a person just had an off comment that might be taken the wrong way, or if there is a trend of trolling behavior

These have been opened on the GitHub and either sit open forever or are just closed.

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 3 days ago

I nearly joined Beehaw when I first joined but I'm really glad I didn't in hindsight.

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[–] fireweed@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago (4 children)

"Joining the fediverse isn't hard bro, your instance doesn't matter, just pick one."

"Stop using Lemmy.world, we need to redistribute to smaller instances."

The number of times I've heard these fucking lines when people discuss why Lemmy/the Fediverse isn't growing like corp-owned alternatives...

[–] galaxynova@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

this wouldn't be so bad if you could easily transfer your account from one instance to another

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 12 points 3 days ago (3 children)

You can transfer all your subscriptions and blocks. What you cannot transfer is your imaginary internet points that aren't summed up by default in lemmy anyways.

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Would your post/comment history be lost as well? Will posts/comments show up as [by deleted user] or w/e?

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 4 points 3 days ago

AFAIK they would remain tied to your old account. The instances copy everything off each other. So if reddthat.com would go down, your comment would still show as EndlessNightmare@reddthath.com If you were to make a new account on a different instance it would not have your posts and comments "attached" to it.

This could be an issue if you rely on reputation for something that is tied to your account. In that sense having some mechanism to proof the old account to be owned by you would be good.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 3 days ago

If instance A stops existing, instance B doesn't have any specific knowledge of that versus it no longer federating. Existing posts and comments will stay. My instance is no longer federated with some, but I still see the communities from them.

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[–] fireweed@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Switching accounts over is a big issue for sure, but even bigger is when entire communities are lost. Those are much harder to switch over, both due to scale and moderation concerns.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

“Joining the fediverse isn’t hard bro, your instance doesn’t matter, just pick one.”

It's true, especially in cases like this when users have 3 months to pick another instance.

“Stop using Lemmy.world, we need to redistribute to smaller instances.”

Also true. Should LW go down in 90 days in a similar way, is it better if LW has 50% of the users, or a smaller number?

[–] fireweed@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I don't disagree with the sentiments behind these statements, but you're basically asking a fish to leave their large school to join a smaller school because it will benefit the species as a whole if the species is divided into multiple schools rather than one giant school. While it might be true that the species is safer that way, it's much more dangerous for the individual fish to be in a smaller school than to stay in the large school.

In other words, it's safer for the fediverse for users to diversify, but is safer for the individual to join a "too large to fail" instance. If a user's instance goes belly up and they lose their account and everything associated with it, it's functionally similar to the entirety of Lemmy going down as far as that individual user is concerned, because unless you're a serial lurker (in which case it doesn't even matter what instance you're on if you're not contributing) who wants to invest years in a social media site just to lose your account? Most folks are going to leave rather than start all over. And most folks are going to make the decision that is in their best interests over those of some website. I know every time I see another instance get shut down or defederated, I'm relieved I decided to sign up via .world, even if it's sluggish at times.

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[–] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

to be fair, they're both correct. Lemmy.world could go solo with no federation and still have a decent user base, maybe add db0 and ani.social and it would cover nearly all of the bases.

[–] x00z@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

You can just export your subscriptions and create an account on another instance in cases like these.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 47 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Thanks for the cross post.

Citations needed on mod tool complaints. I mod one of the largest communities on Lemmy. In 2 years I've had around a couple dozen times that required actual mod stuff. The tools are perfectly adequate for the volume of users in my opinion.

We all took it a little hard when some regular users left. I get that. There will always be people coming and going for various reasons.

There is also always an issue with narcissists that tend to get involved with moderating for the wrong reasons.

All humans are lazy at times. And all of us have a right to pick up an leave if we choose. Blaming the tools as a scapegoat for one's laziness, or inadequacy, or to mask one's financial limitations, seems to me like a narcissistic way to toss in the towel and check out, like an attempt to drag others down too.

I wish those that want to leave all the best, and I'll still be here hanging around if you ever want to come back, friend. Regardless , thanks for what you contributed to this place in the time we spent as digital neighbors.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 22 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The linked post explains:

A Lemmy.World user informed us about an instance we are federated with that was hosting very illegal content a while back. This was a result of an attack more than a year ago, and said content federated to many other instances, which made local copies of the material. Unfortunately, when this material was taken down at the source, that action did not federate to all linked instances, meaning that there are still some instances showing this material.

Once we were made aware of this, we realized that this was likely not the only occurrence, so we started looking for other instances where this content may also still exist. We have identified more than 50 affected instances and already reached out to many of them to inform them about this content to have it taken down.

It seems that it is quite difficult for instance admins to do things like permanently remove posts locally which have already been removed by a mod somewhere else. Ironically, by intentionally making it difficult to access, its inaccessibility afterwards makes it difficult to... uh... access, e.g. to delete it, very much a design flaw.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

it's a combination of multiple issues.

lemmy federation has improved significantly over the past years, so if this was happening with lemmy instances today, especially online ones involved, this would be much less of an issue.

the original user posting this stuff was on a kbin instance. kbin/mbin still do not support federating bans of users. kbin is basically dead, mbin is tracking that here. when this was originally removed on kbin this never federated out to other platforms.

the next problem is that the original instance is no longer there, so attempting to address this with community bans from lemmys side is not working anymore if the user isn't known to the instance anymore, as it can't be refetched from the source. if the instances that the related communities are hosted on purged this user in the past they wouldn't be able to federate out a community ban anymore.

another problem is that lemmy is typically configured in a way where it creates a local copy of thumbnails if no thumbnail url is provided by the source, which is what lead to a local copy of this material. in the end i consider this only a secondary issue, as while most people would rather not have this stored on their servers at all, if you allow media uploads you can never be 100% sure about the content uploaded to your server. this is therefore typically something where providers are expected to take action once they become aware of it. some providers are also taking preventative measures like scanning uploads, comparing to hash databases of known csam, etc. had the original instance ban or community bans been performed properly this would at least have removed public access to the stuff, as the media filenames are randomly generated and not guessable.

it's generally not impossible to prevent stuff from returning to your instance once you have taken it down properly, but in cases where federation didn't work, which could be for a wide range of reasons, including your instance being misconfigured during maintenance, your instance being defederated from an instance involved in the removal, and others, it may require local action. if i ban a user then no new content form that user is going to come to LW until they are unbanned again. this includes manually fetching posts or other content, so if i purge an old post of theirs the post wouldn't be able to come back until the user gets unbanned.

[–] MrBananaGrabber@lemmy.today 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

This should be the top post. This is the part with the meat and potatoes.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 4 days ago

The biggest one is that there needs to be a distinction between mod report and ijstance admin report

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[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 41 points 4 days ago (1 children)

never heard of lemmy one

[–] baronvonj@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It originally set out to be just an account-hosting instance, at a time when the major instances with the big communities would be going down as usage surged from people leaving Reddit. This way it was more responsive and reliably online. They have <10 communities hosted on the instance.

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 53 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I'm a bit bummed as lemmy.one was my introduction to the ecosystem. :(

OTOH, when they were having server problems, I set up a kbin account, but left it when it became clear I could only use the kbin app to access it. Looks like that's shut down now too!

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 46 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

kbin development has halted due to personal issues of the sole dev.

It has since been forked as mbin and seems to be doing well. I too am waiting for stronger app support to truly compare.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 29 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'm excited for both Piefed and MBin. Both projects are progressing rapidly and have communities that seem to have their heads and hearts in the the right places

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I'm also watching piefed's development. Flairs are good addition.

[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

mbin is going great. Interstellar is a solid app.

Note that I may be biased.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 19 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I'll add to the bias. I created both a kbin account and a Lemmy.one account when the migration happened. Preferred kbin's look and feel, then changed over to mbin when Ernest started having issues. Haven't looked back, mbin is great.

[–] osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

+1 for the kbin >>mbin pipeline. I like that it still has pwa support since I really don't need a phone app for a text based forum

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

since I really don't need a phone app for a text based forum

We are very different people and I respect that.

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[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

people are too addicted to reddit to leave(even if they are banned they try to repeal again and again) , and most people dont know about lemmy

[–] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 3 points 2 days ago

Frankly, I never really used Reddit, Lemmy has been my only experience with anything Reddit like, and you know what?

The few times I used Reddit, I got no interaction done

In Lemmy, content is scarce but ironically this allows for more people to talk to; more people to talk with me

Whenever I make a comment, I get atleast one comment, whenever I make a post, it usually reaches atleast 50 votes with two or three comments

I only got those numbers two times on Reddit, and they were memes, I'm actually having decent conversations here

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 29 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's kind of sad but also isn't surprising. They didn't exactly put in a huge amount of effort to maintain it, nor did they put in much effort to grow it or make it appealing as a server for people to join.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

That explains why despite it being around for a while I seem to have no opinion of it.

Edit: always sad to see an instance go however

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

The only positive thing I ever heard about lemmy.one is that they federate with Beehaw. At the time I was already skeptical of that being a good thing since Beehaw has harsh opinions on moderation and had already said they wished to exit the Fediverse. So I dismissed lemmy.one back then as being one of those unremarkable and poorly managed instances, and it seems I was largely right. It is still sad to see an instance leave like this.

[–] iso@lemy.lol 14 points 4 days ago

Now that they're out, lemmy.zero?

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 23 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Any significant communities impacted? Scrolling through my subscriptions list and I don't have any in my list.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 37 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

!privacyguides@lemmy.one

Edit: not to mention the users

Edit2: 131 monthly active users apparently

Also that was the "official" alternative to the subreddit, for what it's worth.

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[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Not surprised. Moderation tools have needed to be the top priority for a long time, and most of lemmy’s users don’t know how janky it is behind the scenes.

[–] JuxtaposedJaguar@lemmy.ml 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

most ~~of lemmy’s~~ users don’t know how janky it is behind the scenes

That’s technology in general

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[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 8 points 4 days ago

I saw a few of their users here and there. Rip in rest. Come to lemm.ee.

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