this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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While some contractors dismiss the plan as political rhetoric, many say they can’t afford to lose more people from an aging, immigrant-dependent workforce still short of nearly 400,000 people.

Both presidential candidates promise to build more homes. One promises to deport hundreds of thousands of people who build them.

Former President Donald Trump's pledge to "launch the largest deportation operation in the history of our country" would hamstring construction firms already facing labor shortages and push record home prices higher, say industry leaders, contractors and economists.

"It would be detrimental to the construction industry and our labor supply and exacerbate our housing affordability problems," said Jim Tobin, CEO of the National Association of Home Builders. The trade group considers foreign-born workers, regardless of legal status, "a vital and flexible source of labor" to builders, estimating they fill 30% of trade jobs like carpentry, plastering, masonry and electrical roles.

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[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 129 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The trade group considers foreign-born workers, regardless of legal status, “a vital and flexible source of labor”

oh yea, republicans will spend all day whining about "illegals" but not one nanosecond even talking about the CEOs who hire those illegals, giving them a reason to come here in the first place

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I’ve made this observation for some time now. Isn’t funny how the industries which hire illegal immigrants are skewed conservative ownership-wise? Construction, roofing, agriculture, trucking, hotels. My belief is that in addition to exploiting division and fear, they want to keep these workers marginalized so they can take advantage of them. Being able to dodge OSHA, medical comp, minimum wage, payroll tax, and so on are all Republican dreams.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.org 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

sounds a bit like slavery, don't you think?

[–] Hylactor@sopuli.xyz 28 points 1 week ago

Wait until you hear about the prison industrial complex.

[–] mr_robot2938@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I worked with a construction firm that hired undocumented Hispanic laborers. The owner wrapped the semi he used for hauling his offshore race boat in a gaudy Trump themed canvas for the 2016 election.

The dichotomy of man in two sentences.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 24 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There have been sections of the border which enacted tough enough policies and technology to actually keep out illegal immigrants. Over time, it cratered the local economies, to the point that politicians got involved and fixed the border patrols back to the insecure way, so that everyone could have a big pool of desperate, vulnerable farm workers again.

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[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Trump. Trump hires illegals too while bitching about them

[–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

I seem to remember (but am too lazy to look up) something about Trump using undocumented Polish laborers on a building project, providing no PPE, paid them sub-minimum wage, no overtime. Reported the laborers to INS so they would be deported to avoid getting sued.

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[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Home builders are greasy as shit but I didn't expect them to say the quiet part out loud.

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[–] JesusSon@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Here's the thing these fucking racist shitbags are not telling you. If the country the illegal immigrants came from won't take them back then the sending country can do shit all to make them. That teams no deportation. No deportation means indefinite detention. Indefinite detention means free labor. I harbor no illusions that this hasn't been the plan from the start.

The world is at a tipping point. Do we backslide into slavery and genocide, or do we stand against it? It's not looking good. I, for one, never thought I would see a time when Americans would so blindly goose-step their way into fascism.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Umm you don't have to take back your citizens? Are you sure?

I read a great legal comment once about how revoking citizenship sounds cool but is really bad for pretty much exactly this reason. You're left in this weird legal limbo with no country to go to (in that case to face criminal legal process).

[–] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Here in the UK there have been a few cases of people of people who scampered off to join Isis etc who have had their citizenship removed and are unable to return to the country. I'm not a law-knower but I think this is pretty legally iffy, it certainly happens though.

[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I am 90% sure that was only people with dual citizenship

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[–] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 44 points 1 week ago (5 children)

That’s because these anti immigrant views aren’t supported by data, or logic, or common sense. It’s not like Americans are lining up to do the jobs immigrants are taking. The US can’t function as a society today without those immigrants. But the right just wants to coddle its racist base with “brown man bad”.

[–] NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works 54 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Americans aren’t lining up to do these jobs at low wages, without proper worker protections. Creating a society that depends on a lower tier of people that have fewer rights is seriously fucked up and is not something we should be embracing.

Siding with the rich business owners who are taking advantage of illegal immigrants is extra weird.

[–] MintyFresh@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Thank you. I've always thought it was fucked people used this line of argument. If we can't build our buildings and clear our own trash? We need an endless stream of low paid poorly treated brown folk to do all those troublesome chores? Seems kinda fucked to me

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Its also why, if they finish "rounding up" people to deport, they will scapegoat more people to round up to explain why the economy is so broken

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[–] ragepaw@lemmy.ca 38 points 1 week ago (7 children)

This is proof they don't understand the endgame here. The only (legal) type of slavery left in the United States is prisoner labour. It is not a coincidence that the right wants to make so many things criminal. It's also not a coincidence they want to keep poor people desperate because it makes them more likely to commit crime. It's not a coincidence they support minimum sentences.

More crime, more free labour, more for profit prisons selling services.....

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[–] chaosCruiser@futurology.today 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

They did that in UK. Brexit worked out perfectly, and everyone lived happily ever after. Oh wait… Wrong story. It was a total dumpster fire and now labor shortage is crippling various industries.

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[–] rekabis@lemmy.ca 31 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The ONY REASON why immigrant labour is needed is because too much of the profits flow to the Parasite Class at the top.

It used to be that America could build affordable family homes for decent-sized families using well-paid American citizens. This was possible because those Americans were actually paid well enough to afford homes of their own; most of the value of their labour actually came back to them. Plus, most building materials weren’t beset by Greedflation and the need to keep obscene amounts of wealth flowing into pockets that were already overstuffed without more wealth than the person could spend in 100 lifetimes.

America could return to that time, where even the lowest-paid workers make enough to be within a stone’s throw of affording their own home. All it takes is a political leader willing to do the politically painful job of taxing the fuck out of the Parasite Class - including treating any loans taken out using stocks as collateral as “income” to be taxed, regardless of the destination of those funds.

That, plus a metric arseload of other things such as making corporate ownership of homes illegal and making “investor ownership” of homes beyond about 3-5 homes similarly illegal. Because not only do these parasites suck up the supply of homes, preventing renters from getting off the rental market, but they are also the primary players jacking up rents to unaffordable levels, seeking to squeeze every possible dollar out of hard-working Americans. Let these parasites find a real job if they want to continue earning money.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That's a problem across all types of business.

If you are cutting wages or laying off people, there is less overall ability to pay for things. You're basically cutting your customers ability to pay.

Even if your employees aren't your target market, they probably buy stuff from the people who are your customers.

 

This psychotic race to the bottom among business owners is just shooting yourself in the foot with extra steps.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 27 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Why not pay builders a fair wage then?

It's certainly not labour costs driving up house prices.

[–] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Not always about the wage. You could pay 200k per year and still have trouble finding people willing to climb up on a roof day in and day out.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Especially if they find out that roofer is the fourth-most dangerous job in the U.S.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states

Incidentally, police officer is ranked at 22. Well below garbage collectors (5), delivery drivers (7), or agricultural workers (11).

[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (10 children)

delivery drivers (7)

I shudder at the thought of driving for work. It's already so hard to keep up spatial awareness of the crazy drivers for an hour or less. I cannot imagine 8 hours of that.

[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Then the wages are still too low...

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[–] histic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

99% of people just don’t want to do the work it’s not a matter of wage and most of the time you get twice the worker when you hire Mexicans just speaking from experience

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I guarantee you more people would find themselves wanting to do the work if it paid more.

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[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 week ago

during the 2016 election cycle, the national association of home builders pac gave $361,500 to democrat campaigns and $1,820,000 to republicans (83.4%).

for the current election (reported so far), they are even more unbalanced at 85.9% republican.

^source

remind me again, mr tobin, which political party wants to deport your 'vital' workers?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Pretty much.

I walked by a construction site when I lived in California, I heard everyone speaking Spanish.

I walk by a construction site now that I live in Indiana and I hear... everyone speaking Spanish.

I'm guessing that at least some of them aren't citizens.

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Anytime you come across someone shitting on immigration ask them who built their house.

I've been saying this for years, the American dream is subsidized by cheap labor from South of the border. Without them we would be doing far worse

Not to mention illegal immigrants are half as likely to commit crime as American citizens

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We also wouldn't have, you know, food, since agriculture and meat-packing are heavily dependent on undocumented immigrants and almost every kitchen in every restaurant in the country is staffed with undocumented immigrants. I want to think that the importance of food and housing would make Republicans not actually do this, but you never know with these crazy fuckwits. Perhaps they think child and prison labor would make an adequate replacement.

[–] CgH10N4Co2@lemmy.cafe 10 points 1 week ago

Translation: Builders would rather go broke than pay anyone a living wage.

[–] Dorkyd68@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Almost all trump related policies will drive up costs for the consumer. He's only worried about lining the pockets of his rich friends, not making daily life for the average family more affordable

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The idea has also drawn skepticism on logistical grounds, with some analysts saying its costs would be “astronomical.”

This is like being skeptical that Nazi Germany would send people to death camps because it would be too expensive.

Bryan Dunn, an-Arizona based senior vice president at Big-D Construction, a major Southwest firm, called “the idea that they could actually move that many people” out of the country “almost laughable.”

Societies have been able to move millions of people around since they developed railway systems.

What's almost laughable is the state of denial people are in.

Last year, the state’s Republican governor, Ron DeSantis, enacted a series of restrictions and penalties to deter the employment of undocumented workers. Many immigrant workers hastily left the state even before the policies took effect, with social media videos showing some construction sites sitting empty.

This is the best case scenario in theory. Immigrants would flee to safety before the US government could harm them. However, in practice, where can they go? Many people already come here because their home countries are too dangerous for them.

This gets to a broader point. I've seen a lot of discussion in the past about trying to flee the country if things go wrong. There isn't going to be anywhere to flee to that's any safer if the US becomes a christo-fascist dictatorship. The EU is going to have to fend for itself against Russia. Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan will be on their own. Unrest in North America, South America, Africa and Asia will only get worse. We are seeing a global rise of fascism along with dictatorships becoming bolder and more willing to challenge the international order. Anyway we slice it, the only good outcomes involve fascists staying out of power.

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[–] savx@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

it doesnt matter. even if trump get elected and all those predicted bad things happen, republicans have no hesitate to spin those onto some leftist/wokish things.

[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

He knows this. The goal of the billionaires is to completely destabilize the economy, blame it on Biden and take power by force with Trump as the mouth piece. Buy guns, buy ammo, buy bolt cutters.

[–] tikimusic@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

By saying that, aren't contractors admitting that they're doing something illegal, and that undocumented workers are also prone to abuse and lower pay?

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

A lot of farmers use farm hands from Mexico with permits and a form of green card that allows them to get paid in American dollars during work seasons to bring back home, and get a path towards American citizenship than if they just entered the country with a passport or applied directly for a visa.

I don't know if a lot of contractors do the same thing, but I wouldn't be shocked. The labor is cheap and it kinda looks good for the camera. Adam Raguesa, a YouTube chef, has a good video on how farmers in the modern era grow the crops we eat on the table every day.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 7 points 1 week ago

“Will somebody think of the companies that create the illegal immigration problem in the first place” is the worst take possible in all this.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'll be so glad when this election is over and he can just lose the rest of his criminal cases and get sentenced, or have his final Big Mac Attack and dodge justice forever.

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[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Drive up ~~home prices~~ Trump's property values.

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