this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2024
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Why are knife control laws so strong in the United States as opposed to gun control?

I was realizing it would be nice to have a knife with auto opening for boxes, etc., basically a switch blade or similar, and I found out that they are super illegal in my state (and/or there are length restrictions, or both sides of the blade can't be sharp, etc), but I can go into a sporting goods store and buy a pistol and ammo in under 30min.

Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient. What is up with restrictive knife-control laws??

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[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 102 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because knife doesn't have NKA to lobby for it.

[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

I wouldn't mind if they did honestly

[–] ChadCMulligan@lemm.ee 58 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The workaround is to buy a small handgun for concealed carry and then attach a small switchblade bayonet.

Your right to open boxes shall not be infringed

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago
[–] Geek_King@lemmy.world 42 points 1 month ago (3 children)

When a moral panic happens, a lot of things get blown out of proportion. A good example was the panic relating to D&D and satanism. There was a huge panic sometime in the 50s or 60s about the police dealing with young thugs with concealed switch blades, which could be hidden, and then deployed one handed so fast a cop couldn't draw his weapon fast enough. So this panic got a lot of laws drawn up to ban any switch blade.

Since then, the there are knives that skirt the law by not having a spring which force the blade open, instead a tension bar. There are still types are illegal to carry if a Cop would find out you have it, like "Out the front" switch knives.

The stupid part is, there are plenty of "one hand deployable" knives on the market that are 100% legal. But the laws never get revisited. In my state it's illegal to have a out the front switch blade, yet a bunch of high end OTF knives are for sale at a sporting store. They just post a sign that says "Know your local laws", which some how makes it okay to sell.

If anyone has more to add, or corrects, let me know.

[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It also goes to show how laws made during the moral panic don't go away even decades after that panic fades.

This is often in mind when responsible gun owners are critical of more gun laws. The govt won't go "that was silly of us here's your bit of freedom back" even if a law objectively had zero positive effect

[–] Kaboom@reddthat.com 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

For example, short barrelled rifles are still heavily regulated. Pistols aren't nearly as regulated.

[–] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yes for those that don't know in the US any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches needs to have a buch of extra paperwork and a tax stamp to the ATF to register it as a "short barreled rifle" or it is a weapons related felony. The reason behind it is the government was afraid of gangs using easily concealed weapons.

The most common rifle of the US military, the M4, used a 14.5 inch barrel. Even if everything else was legal for the average citizen to own by making it semi auto only, that barrel makes it a short barreled rifle by law. But add an extra 1.5 inches and it's perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.

The way to avoid the pain of excessive paperwork and tax stamp is to replace the stock with a "pistol brace" and make it a "pistol". You know, the category of gun used most by criminals like gang members because it's easy to conceal.

[–] thurstylark@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The arbitrarity of some states' knife laws is also a problem. I don't remember which state (OK pre ~2015 law updates perhaps?), but I read about one that had few carry restrictions below a certain blade size (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 inches, IIRC), and if you're caught carrying one over the limit, you basically have to give a specific purpose for having it. Assuming your case goes to trial, this means it's more or less up to the judge to determine if your use was valid, which is juuuuuuuussst flexible enough to persecute the "right" people. (assuming I'm remembering correctly that this was in Oklahoma, that would be Native Americans)

Switching gears; Some More News had a pretty comprehensive video about moral panics, which also includes some history on switchblades in particular, for those interested.

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[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

Butterfly knives only became legal in NY and MA about 4 years ago. There's virtually zero reason to ban them other than protecting stupid people from accidentally cutting themselves

(I'm one of those stupid people)

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 month ago

I had one of those in high school and took it with me to a school trip in my back pack. We were at camp (think log houses) for three nights and I started spinning the blade daily. Lots of cuts (mostly on my hands) later I've learned to flip it like a pro. I can still do it to this day if someone hands me one. It's like biking or swimming. Once you learn it, you don't forget.

The teacher that was with us never said anything besides watching my progress. He was the coolest dude ever. I miss you, Mr Jones.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

They were banned because racism. Not because of any particular danger to the user.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

I got one of those things at a state fair when I was a little kid and set about immediately cutting myself trying to flip it open and look cool. My mom took it from me shortly thereafter. That ended the short saga of WoahWoah and the butterfly knife.

At this point, I can't think of any reason I would want one. People that can use them well look pretty cool, but as a purposeful knife, they seem pointlessly complicated and prone to user error.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I use one as my daily! I practice with it a lot and have a trainer to practice. Funny enough, I actually just modeled mine today in a photoshoot (am a circus performer)

As a daily they function as any other knife. If you're experienced with them, you don't even think about open or closing. There's a tiny bit of security in knowing that most people are too afraid to hold one. I do also like that they absolutely can't close on you while holding it.

I have cut myself though. The worst was when I did a toss that landed tip-down on my palm. But small harm doesn't bother me.

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[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Same reason they banned pinball in Chicago and NY. To distract the people away from what names politicians money.

[–] Mnemnosyne@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 month ago

Because so-called second amendment advocates are really just gun nuts, and so over the years they have worked hard to maintain the right to keep and bear guns, rather than arms.

Thus knives, swords, halberds, maces, and all other 'arms' have had restrictions go unchallenged, or at least, not challenged by an extensive and well funded network of advocacy.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago

If you look at the timing of most the laws against specific types of knives… you’re going to notice a pattern where there was some scare involving some minority or alt group.

Switch blades were outlaws after Hollywood depicted African American villains as gangsters with them.

Same with ballisongs and Asian gangsters/villians.

All of that said, auto-openers have a hair trigger and I would suggest instead getting a good flipper you can easily flick open. Benchmade bugout is my EDC (not for fighting, it’s light and solid.)

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Because knife control doesn’t have an entry on the constitution.

[–] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 20 points 1 month ago

Similarly to religion and the bible, words mean whatever people want them to mean.

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[–] kureta@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 month ago

Because there is no National Knife Association to lobby for knife rights.

[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 month ago

There are actually some legal movements to reduce unnecessary knife laws, because a lot of them are based around the idea of 50s punks and don't make actual logical sense.

But yeah, it depends entirely on the state. The only knife laws in my state is you can't conceal carry a Bowie knife, but all other knives (OTF, automatics, balisongs, etc) are legal.

[–] Reverendender@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (4 children)

You definitely need to start shooting open your Amazon boxes

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[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient.

True, but it's the American way.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They aren't: This is 100% state dependent. Some states have extremely permissive laws allowing you to carry anything from a switchblade to a greatsword if you want.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Yes, and gun laws are state dependent as well. I'm not talking about federal law (though technically the Federal Switchblade Act of 1958 is still in force), I'm saying that arguably the majority of states in the United States have more permissive gun laws than knife laws, and it's absurd.

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[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run 12 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I moved to Japan where knives are also heavily restricted. If you live in Japan, you need a permit to purchase anything with a fixed blade over 15cm and it must be kept in the home. You can't legally carry a pocket knife with a blade longer than 6cm (I think 8cm if it's a folding but not fixed blade) and even then, if stopped, you need to have a specific reason for carrying it around.

It was really weird to me, as someone who carried a pocket knife basically everywhere. I did learn, though, that "in case I need to open boxes" is a case that has come up like twice in 10 years.

As for guns here, handguns are not allowed at all. There are licenses for airguns (pellet guns), rifles, and shotguns. Separately, there are licenses for trapping and hunting that do grant some permissions outside of what I wrote above (hunting/trapping license but no gun license means you're going to be killing your catch with knife, spear, strangulation, drowning, or electrocution).

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Interesting. I will say, I use my pocket knife usually at least once a day for one thing or another. They're surprisingly useful for all sorts of tasks.

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[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Well there are such restrictions on guns, try and get a short barrel rifle in under 30 min, the paperwork alone will take that long.

But also yeah those laws suck and shouldn't exist. Much like the original intent behind CCW permits where the theory was "concealing is for criminals," those knives were also seen as "for criminals." It's just old outdated bullshit that goes largely uncharged but can be used if they want to fuck with you. In some cases "criminals" was also synonymous with black people or even italians depending on the year lol, and were passed for racist reasons.

[–] pushECX@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I was thinking the same thing. There are definitely restrictions on the size/function of guns, and you have to fill out paperwork, get fingerprinted, etc to get past those restrictions.

To buy any gun at a store, you also have to have a background check, which you generally don't have to do for knives.

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[–] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The corrolary is that there's essentially no knife control in Canada. There's no length limit or anything. The law just states that you can't carry a weapon. But if you have a reasonable reason to be carrying a machete (like going bushwacking) you're good.

[–] JeromeVancouver@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I think switch blades are illegal in Canada too, but I could be wrong

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[–] cacheson@piefed.social 8 points 1 month ago

There is a "Knife Rights" organization that works to overturn these laws. From what I hear, they tend to be pretty successful, since there isn't a ton of attention on the issue and there isn't much in the way of entrenched opposition the way there is on the guns issue.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Very old laws on the books that no one has bothered to change in some states. Federally, they aren't illegal. Federally, knives weren't protected under the 2nd amendment so states had an easier time putting rules in place against them, and many did. My state just legalized otf and switch blades for everyone a few years ago. Mainly because unassisted knives were able to become just as quick and easy to open, it was a bit silly to leave assisted open knives not legal.

As an added note just for you: cardboard is hell on knife blades and they'll dull them very quickly. I'd get yourself a box knife and blades f9r it if you open a lot of boxes, unless you want to sharpen a knife like twice a week.

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[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

Just line up the gun parallel to the tape so that the bullet rips it open

[–] Sequentialsilence@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (5 children)

The US has strong knife laws? I carry a knife almost everyday and this is the first I’m hearing of this. The only time I can’t take my knife somewhere is if no weapons at all are allowed there, like government buildings.

[–] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

I'm my state there are restrictions, but they are pretty much accessory charges that you won't get unless you are a dipshit. You do have to have a firearms permit to carry an automatic knife though, I am not aware of anybody getting charged with that and that alone.

What is funny is you can have a ka-bar on your belt not concealed and be fine, but you aren't suppose to carry a pocketknife with a blade over 3.5". Also if the fixed blade knife is sharpened on both sides of the blade, that is a no-no, but if it folds it is fine. I think they just removed the ban on butterfly knifes or it has the firearms permit exemption now, but I would have to check to confirm.

As you can imagine, the gun laws make about as much sense and don't do much to help the problem of violence.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

What state do you live in? You might be surprised to find you are technically breaking the law. Or you're just carrying a simple little folding knife.

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[–] bestagon@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Just get one anyway. It won’t do you any favors if a cop finds it but knife control isn’t a big priority for most law enforcement

EDIT: I am not a lawyer

[–] rhythmisaprancer@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I suspect it is because knives are not included in the second amendment of the constitution. That is a pretty easy argument for people to use against gun regulation (whether or fair or not), but there is no such thing for knives.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

Knives are included in "arms." In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled in Heller that the term "arms" has the same meaning as it did in the 18th century and includes anything that can be used for defense, carried for offensive or defensive action, or used to strike another person.

[–] radix@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Laws on the books generally don't get overturned unless they are specifically mentioned in a court ruling, or there is some action by a legislative body. If you want to be able to buy/sell switchblades, you could challenge the law and see where it goes. But apparently nobody has bothered to take it to court.

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[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

My opinion is that it comes down to people not caring as much.

Yeah, that seems obvious, but bear with me here.

Know what the biggest difference there is between knives and guns? It ain't how they do the job as weapons, though that is a big one. It's that guns all work the same, so if you start banning one kind, it ends up applying to far more than anyone that thinks of firearms as an extension of the right to defense, a core human right, is willing to accept.

You ban switchblades, and there's still fixed blades, slipjoints, lockbacks, etc. Nobody has ever tried to make the kind of laws you see around knives in other countries, but if there was an attempt, I don't think there would be as much passion against it as there are with guns because there's just not as much concern about knives as part of the right to defense because guns exist. Range > melee 90% of the time.

Firearms are the gold standard for personal weaponry. So out of the peeps that care about the enumerated right to keep and bear arms simply don't think about knives as much. Same as they don't think about bows, or swords or halberds. They don't care because the fight isn't as relevant to them.

And, on the other side of things, because guns are the gold standard, you don't have as many people targeting knives. There's less to fight against

Now, if guns disappeared, see how quickly crossbows and swords started being the target as people shifted to them instead of guns. That's where the fight would go to. Ban those, and there's going to be steps all the way down until the debate is about how big a rock you are allowed to have.

Also, because of that lack of give-a-shit, knife laws aren't draconian everywhere. There's some states where you can own and carry any knife you want. Others only ban knives that can shoot across the room, or other specific, niche types

Also, I think you're underestimating how easy it is to get a pistol. If you go in without the work done ahead of time, you ain't buying a pistol in half an hour. I don't think even Texas is that loose. Background checks take at least that long. Maybe I'm behind the times om something, but even "shall issue" permit states, you have to count getting the permit in the time factor, imo.

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