this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
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Fediverse

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).

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Is it just the momentum and word of mouth, or are there improved features as well?

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[–] shinratdr@lemmy.ca 41 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Not a lot. Simpler signup flow and ecosystem, more twitter-like timeline and features, better discoverability and some communities that aren’t on Mastodon. FOSS diehards can mince about it all they want and blame idiot users, but the simple fact is people who don't live and breathe technology still have lots to offer a social network, and Mastodon continues to alienate them in design and in community. Lemmy does too.

I like Mastodon and Lemmy, a lot. I prefer them to the alternatives. But I just signed up for BlueSky and I’m enjoying it a lot even routed through the Mastodon bridge, simply because there are more diverse communities there, whereas my Mastodon feed is 90% tech and dev people despite spending hours and hours hunting for people I used to follow on Twitter. Getting big App.net flashbacks.

[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

I think a ton of what's wrong with lemmy and mastadon can be attributed to the bias of the user based. They skew very tech literate and liberal. Simple one click sign up and smooth onboarding into a user experience is the only way you will get the mass appeal of something like Twitter, reddit etc. I don't necessarily think that's a good thing honestly.... A person is smart, People are dumb.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Artificial scarcity (invites) and VC funding

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[–] ram@lemmy.ca 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Forgive my ramblings, but here's the main differences I see, from a community perspective:

Bluesky's for people who loved twitter circa 2015
Mastodon's for people who loved the format but hated the way the platform made use of it. The community is FOSS-focused and anti-corporate.
Bluesky folks are anti-corporate, but they still want their social media to be on a single platform and tend to dislike federation
Mastodon folks tend to be in smaller circles and more tech enthused

Features-wise, Mastodon kills the algorithm in favour of chronological timelines and lists, while Bluesky embraces algorithms, allowing people to even make their own algorithms for the platform. Bluesky's AT Proto uses "DIDs" to identify users, which are associated directly with a domain^[or subdomain]. This means that when federation does eventually happen, usernames will just be @my.domain.com instead of ActivityPub's @actor@my.domain.com.

Federation's still not enabled so I have no clue how things will look and feel on that front, nor am I familiar enough with the protocol to make any claim about how versatile it is. ActivityPub is flexible enough to be a Twitter clone, a reddit clone, a blogging platform, a youtube clone, a twitch clone, a goodreads clone, or several other formats. AT Proto's currently only proven to work for a Twitter clone.

[–] Xepher@lemm.ee 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would argue that most Bluesky users don't necessarily dislike federation, but rather have no idea what it is, or what the larger Fediverse is.

[–] HipPriest@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

Someone I'm in a Discord group with wanted an invite to bluesky because it was more familiar to him than Mastodon.

He pretty much wanted a like-for-like replacement for Twitter, though to his credit he had already tried Mastodon before dismissing it out of hand.

It's not that he disliked it exactly, but he wasn't that interested by what he saw so didn't stick with it - to each their own

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Bluesky folks are anti-corporate

Bluesky is a for profit company with a crypto person as the CEO and Jack Dorsey on the board so good luck to them I guess

[–] ram 3 points 11 months ago

Oh ya, no, 100%. The company is still a for-profit corporation that needs to make ends meet come the 31st. The userbase is what I'm talking about there, and specifically their unprincipled stance wrt corporate control, in paying lip-service to hating corpos, yet wanting everything to be structured around a centralized entity and team who makes it easy to blame someone (1) for anything that goes wrong.

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[–] art@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Look, on Mastodon you have to pick a server. That's just too hard to do.

That's why email never took off.

[–] BirdLaw@sh.itjust.works 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

unironically this.

You think 'oh it's not that hard to just pick a sever', but it is. Most people look at it and go 'well my favorite influencer or friend is on X, but I can only make an account on Y. Can I still communicate with them?! Which advantage has sever Y over server Z? etc. It's it's ONE barrier which is one barrier too much for many people (on top of all the new things they have to learn anyway when they decide to get on a new social network)

Most people don't know the ins and outs of how these federated systems work, like you do - and it's scary to them to be confronted with a question about system architecture, when all they want to do is read news or memes.

And it's interesting that you mention email, because I'd argue email has the exact same problem. Depending on which country you live in, you'll notice that most people use primarily one email provider per region/country. Why? because their friends use the same email provider. You know how many people told me "well, I don't have email, but I can give you my Gmail if you want...?" Email just 'took off' because it had nothing to compete with for 20 years and businesses depended on it as well.

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[–] Psythik@lemm.ee 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Sarcasm aside, you're not wrong. The top result for "Lemmy" (that isn't about Motörhead) is for Join-Lemmy.org. I'm a tech-minded person, but when I saw this "join a server" crap instead of a front page, I decided that I'm too old and that it's too much effort to figure out. Now imagine someone who isn't tech-minded wants to join. They'll fuck off even sooner than I did.

Hell, the only reason why I'm here is because I decided that Imgur isn't a good alternative. They're no better than reddit (i.e. no 3rd party apps). So I decided to stop being lazy and figure it the fuck out. Others might not be as motivated.

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[–] kromem@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Suspicious@lemmy.wtf 5 points 11 months ago
[–] Thann@lemmy.ml 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Corgana@startrek.website 5 points 11 months ago

It really comes down to this. So many time's I've discovered a cool FOSS project years after it's existed simply because I hadn't thought to search for it. Imagine if Linux had the advertising budget of Microsoft or Google. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" would have arrived in '99.

This aspect is one thing that makes me optimistic about the fediverse. A communication platform without ads and where the spread of information is dependent on network effects and word of mouth, means that it's much harder for a company to force themselves in front of everyone at once using dollars.

[–] IvanOverdrive@lemm.ee 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I hate gatekeeping so much, but what I'm about to say is going to contradict that statement so much I should probably stop typing and start this post again....

Anywhoo....

If a troglodyte can't figure out how to sign up for the fediverse, then they should stick to CorpoChat

[–] Prior_Industry@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I never got the argument that it's hard to sign up to. I think the main issues are that people want content from media entities that may not be present or welcome - legacy media etc. This could be where threads.net fills the gap but then it sounds like they will be blocked from a lot of instances.

I have worked around it via press.coop but they don't cover everything. I also follow more journalists directly than I did on Twitter. I don't miss Twitter and find Mastodon more informative but I'm sure that's because of the information I'm looking for.

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[–] darcy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

i agree.......but....no

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

A place where normies can feel at home, knowing that they won’t feel out of place not having a fursona or favourite Linux distribution and won’t be scolded for not using alt text or some inadvertent picoaggression. Also, the promise of clout.

[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What? The constant wave of fury porn and Linux propoganda spam isn't what people join a social media platform for?!??!?

[–] lowered_lifted@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

Have you been on bluesky? There's lots of furries there

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[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

An artificial scarcity model which gets people excited over the chance to join diet twitter.

[–] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It creates that "one big chatroom" vibe from old twitter, while Mastodon feels like a bunch of people microblogging next to each other

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[–] lowered_lifted@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you go on Bluesky they will tell you. Lots of people saying that they feel isolated because there is no algorithm feeding engagement, and federation doesn't lend itself to finding your friends from Twitter easily without one of those migration tools people were using. Then another chunk describe Mastodon users as a "HOA" because someone told them to put a CW on something.

[–] derin@lemmy.beru.co 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Suspicious@lemmy.wtf 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Home Owners Association (group that implements rules for homeowners in a neighborhood like what colour you can paint your house or what you can plant in the garden), and Content Warning

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[–] Suspicious@lemmy.wtf 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think emulating twitter was a huge mistake for mastadon, the twitter reply structure that makes it difficult to have a long conversation with multiple people to be the main part of the post but ideal for "dunks" and outrage farming. I think the Tumblr reblog structure would have been an infinitly better choice for the more actual socialising thing fediverse is going for and a small user base that isnt producing much content and can re-circulate older posts. also it's less image-centric allowing more posts to be stored on a server, additionally (intuitively, I haven't thought about implementation that hard) it seems like a much more natural fit for federation.

[–] timconspicuous@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I like Mastodon and the Fediverse, I really do, but I just can't deny that all the good posters that made Twitter enjoyable moved to Bluesky. My Mastodon feed is nothing but journalists, activists, developers, but very little fun shitposting.

[–] rbos@lemmy.ca 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Oh lord that would sell me on mastodon instantly if I weren't already there.

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[–] Mandy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As much as people may not like to hear it Ease of use from being one centralized platform is a big factor

Just login and be done with it

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

But I logged in to Lemmy and was done too.

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[–] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 11 months ago (13 children)

Tho I agree with all the comments I have to say the general vibe of bluesky is more playful and fun compared to mastadon, perhaps its just my bias. But just like lemmy generally feels like a nice place to be so does bluesky- the vibe feels inviting.

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[–] airportline@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago
[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

A cult leader in Jack Dorsey

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Portable accounts and being able to add third party layers to your feed for moderation and sorting algorithms. At least that's their design goal, idk if it's actually implemented because I never got an invite after like half a year.

[–] g0g0gadget@artemis.camp 3 points 11 months ago

Yep. I love and use lists on Mastodon, but I'd love to have the custom algos as well.

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