this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2024
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The wording of the complaints has me wondering if the game actually does anything "wrong" by the normal standards of video gaming. Like, does it actually glorify violence specifically against Jews? Is there some mission objective to butcher a bunch of civilians? I glance at the Steam page and it looks like the political statement its creator claims it is.
I'm pretty sick of this "anything that isn't hardcore pro-Israel is antisemitic terrorism" horsecrap. Either care about human life or don't, don't BS me and everyone else like the acts and atrocities committed in video games suddenly matter when characters who happen to be (presumed) Jews are involved.
People missing the point. Politicians care more about fictional Israeli and jewish lives than real life Muslims and Arabs.
I see the matters as connected: I figure people who flip out about "antisemitism" at anything even mildly unfriendly to Israel are serving (deliberately or not) to defend, justify, or even glorify its vile actions. That is, I think it's not "zomg those poor pixel Jews!" but rather "Shhh, don't talk like people are fighting against the IDF for a reason! (Let's just accept that they're all horrible evil sub-humans who must to be exterminated for the good of our wonderful, beloved friends and allies!)"
Making a game about a specific attack that, at best, was purposefully indiscriminate, and at worst, directly targeted civilians is a bit more than the normal fare though. COD probably came closest with their false flag airport mission and that was a fictitious event.
I mean it also targeted the Israeli military so it definitely belongs in a game where you play as a Palestinian resistance fighter. Also the game was made in 2022 and only has a level about October 7.
Yeah that's a good point, we play Vietnam games with zero recognition of what probably happened to the villagers. I think it probably comes down to what someone thinks the main purpose of the attack was.
Thanks for the information. I really didn't know about that attack and was on my way out at the time so I was more reacting to generalities and what was right in front of me.
I don't mean to suggest that anything and everything should be socially acceptable as freeze peach, just that I feel some people are being disingenuous and should be expected to point out an actual problem like "Look here, the rewards you get vary based on the racial and religious background of every civilian you kill!" Killing civilians who happen to be present regardless of other matters is murder. Killing opposing military personnel regardless of other matters is battle. Killing people because they're Jewish is murderous antisemitism. Not wanting something seen doesn't make it a crime... but I think some people are so stuck picking sides that even mention that there's another point of view offends them 🤷
That said, could be Hamas is pure evil for all I know and there's just no way to present anything they do without it being disgusting. I just... bleh, maybe it's an autism thing. There's a nit there that I can't help but pick 😅 I want more sincerity and sense in this world.
To be fair I think the hostages/dead civilians are more because they're Israeli than their religion. There's definitely anti-Semitism in Hamas, but Hamas was founded to resist brutal occupation tactics.
Let's flip the question around.
Would you be against a video game glorifying the Nazi invasion to Poland if it didn't show Nazis killing civilians?
How about a game glorifying the IDF as it fights against Hama's terrorists in Gaza?
If the Nazis had legitimate grievances against the Polish? Maybe. Your premise is flawed in that it assumes everything a Palestinian resistance fighter does is terrorism that can't ve glorified. Let me flip your question around: Woud you object to an Irish-made game that allows you to play as the IRA and car bomb the British?
Who decides what's "legitimate"?
Parts of Poland belonged to the second Reich, but were taken away by force in the aftermath of WWI. From the Nazi perspective, they had every right to claim them back.
Edit: Wait, what just happened? Did you actually say saying you'd be okay with a game glorifying the Nazi invasion to Poland if they "had legitimate grievances against the Polish"? WTF?
My premise assumes that every Hamas fighter that crossed into Israel on Oct. 7th is a terrorist. The "resistance fighters" that attacked military bases are the same people who raped party goers, burned to death civilians in their homes and kidnapped men, women, children and the elderly to be used as a bargaining chip and human shields.
Would I be for a ban of Fatah fighters attacking IDF bases? Maybe, maybe not. I probably wouldn't argue over it with strangers on the internet, for what that's worth.
Depends. is it called "Knights of the IRA" or glorify the IRA in any way? Then I would support the ban. Because the they were a terrorist movement that targeted civilians. Why would you even ask that? Are you seriously okay with glorifying terrorists if you happen to agree with their goals?
Ooh! I know this one! It's the people with all the money, isn't it? It's usually the people with the most money who decide these things.
I mean depends on those specific grievances by the hypothetical Nazis, yes, because then they wouldn't be Nazis as we know them.
You'll need a source for that.
Your terrorist is someone else's freedom fighter. Nelson Mandela was listed as a terrorist in the US until the 2000s. "Terrorist" isn't a bad word that makes a whole organization irredeemable human scum, and considering the IRA's contribution to North Irish liberation, I'd say the answer is yes. "Terrorists" are people you can love or hate depending on their specific actions and goals.
You just said you'd be okay with glorification of "theoretical" Nazis, but not if they hadn't committed multiple war crimes, countless atrocities, murdering and incarcerating people based on mental health, ethnicity and sexual orientation. No, the thing you're most with is that they didn't have a good enough reason to invade Poland.
I lost interest in talking to you.
I was obviously (okay maybe not very obviously) talking within the context of their invasion of Poland. Anyway Nazis didn't have legitimate grievances with anyone they targeted (because they targeted whole ethnic groups), which is part of why they're hated so much and what illegitimizes the comparison between them and insert your hated organization of choice here.
This game was published before that oct 7 issue. It's not related.
Oh, come on...
From the link: "Video game available on Steam allows players to simulate being a Hamas teroist who k*lls Jews in the Old City of Jerusalem while shouting ‘Allahu Akbar,’” the account posted. In November, Nijm released an update called the “Operation al-Aqsa Flood Update,” which alludes to Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel by having Palestinian fighters paragliding into an Israeli military base."
Throw a rock into the FPS section of your local game store. At least one of the games you hit will allow you to play as a German soldier in World War 2.
I said "glorifying the Nazi invasion", not "play as a German soldier in World War 2". These are two very different things. Why the hell do I even have to explain this?
The game is called "Fursan al-Aqsa: The Knights of the Al-Aqsa Mosque". How about a game called "Bliutzkrieg Poland: Heroes of the third reich"? In what store can I buy that one?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Corps_(video_game)
I'm willing to put $1000 that this game doesn't glorify Nazis, and $100 more that it actively makes it clear to the player that while the game is played from the Nazi perspective, the game isn't intended to glorify Nazis.
I've played neither games, so I cannot comment about their contents. The second part of your comment is specifically about titles.
"Knights of al-Aqsa", as a title, does not have the same meaning nor implications of a your example. that would something more like "Bulldozing Israel, Knights of the Caliphate", eventhough comparing the thrid riech to a caliphate is a stretch.
Okay, let's put that another way:
Do you agree that “Knights of al-Aqsa” probably glorifies Hamas?
Do you agree that “Panzer Corps” probably does not glorify the Nazis?
If you answered "yes" to both questions, do you understand the difference between both games?
Knights of al-Aqsa mostlikely glorifies Hamas, along with any other faction fighting against Israel.
Panzer Corps probably glorifies Nazis as well.
but it doesn't matter, as neither of us have played any of these games, nor will we ever. My whole point was about your choice of words for the nazi example.
"knights of al-aqsa" doesn't have an explicit context, it comes knowledge of current events.
"panzer corps" doesn't have an explicit context, it comes knowledge of historic events.
Bliutzkrieg Poland: Heroes of the third reich” has a very explicit context. The third reich specifically refers to nazi Germany.
Your example make it seems as if you think defending Al-Aqsa Mosque is inherently an act of aggression, murder, colonial expansion, and ethnic cleansing.
Great. as I said earlier - I’m willing to put $1000 that this game doesn’t glorify Nazis, and $100 more that it actively makes it clear to the player that while the game is played from the Nazi perspective, the game isn’t intended to glorify Nazis. Would you be willing to take that bet?
Sorry, but if you think “panzer corps” doesn't specifically refers to Nazi Germany, that's on you. The first line from Wikipedia reads: A panzer corps (German: Panzerkorps) was an armoured corps type in Nazi Germany's Wehrmacht during World War II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_corps
I'm failing to get my point across, so I'm bowing out of discussion. However I understand your point, and partially aggree , but mostly disagreed with the phrasing.
cheers
Fair enough. Have a good one.
Why’d you ignore the other comment lol
What other comment?
Neve mind I just saw that you responded to it
Nazi invasion of Poland - you mean like Israeli invasion and occupation of Palestine?
I've already given that example earlier...
No. You have given an opposite example. If you want to use historic comparisons it is Israel which proudly follows Third Reich, starting with racist laws and ending with genocide.
Yes, they did give that exact example just with the opposite political framing.
I said "Would you be against [...] a game glorifying the IDF as it fights against Hamas terrorists in Gaza?" (and I would link to that if I could figure out how to do that...).
The main part of your message is just you saying "Israel are Nazis!!!", which is besides the point.
Read again. Slowly.
You're making a false equivalence, but regardless, I am fine with any of that, even though I hate Nazis and the IDF, because it's a video game. It's virtual.