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Valve issues DMCA takedown for "Team Fortress: Source 2" (files.catbox.moe)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by simple@lemm.ee to c/games@lemmy.world

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Link: https://nitter.net/TeamFortressS2/status/1745157814295617767

Valve is generally supportive of mods (hell, a Portal 2 mod was just released a few days ago) but it seems like recreating Team Fortress 2 was pushing it... Really sad, honestly. I really hope Valve would just strike a deal with these devs and make it official rather than throw away the insane amount of effort they put into re-building TF2.

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[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 133 points 5 months ago

Valve are well within their rights here. This isn't new content or transformative. It's literally trying to remake the same game using the same engine. These devs knew they were playing with fire. Never come between GabeN and his hats.

[-] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 68 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

My thinking is that it was hot garbage that was trying to milk the TF2 name to grow their own fanbase. And valve didn't want to be associated with that.

My guess is that Black Mesa looks great, had passionate people who were really communicating and engaging with Valve/community, didn't infringe on the Half-Life trademark and it felt like a step forward, which is why it was allowed to continue AND even be brought to market.

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[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Makes me wonder where their line is between this and Black Mesa, though.

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 58 points 5 months ago

Black Mesa is a remake of a single player game that Valve wasn't planning on remaking any time soon, more profitable to make it official and take a cut

TF2 actively still makes them sht tons of money, no profit in splitting the fan base

[-] duplexsystem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 5 months ago

https://www.eurogamer.net/valve-gives-black-mesa-permission-to-be-a-commercial-product

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 15 points 5 months ago

Imo, Trademark. Black Mesa is a concept from Half-Life, but "Black Mesa" to the best of my knowledge wasn't a registered trademark. "Team Fortress/Team Fortress 2" are registered trademarks however, and that significantly changes the value and functionality of the specific terms.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

That would only allow them the name, not the content. They always had to get Valve's permission.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago

Yes, but it's easier to give permission to use concepts that don't infringe on trademark than it is to give permission on something that could be argued in court as muddying a trademark.

I know they require permission either way, but what permission they're actually asking for changes based on what terminology they use

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Well my point is that since the content is directly related, it actually doesn't matter what they called it. It would've been exactly the same amount of infringement if they called it, "happy fun times at the science lab".

The only differnce is it would've been less obvious to identify.

[-] Vespair@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I get your point, my point is the infringement would be less egregious without trademark and thus easier for Valve to turn a blind eye to, or even potentially officially endorse via some potential deal à la Black Mesa.

But hey, I am fully willing to concede that I am just a layman with enormous distance from this topic and no specific expertise or insider knowledge, so the possibility of me being wrong is high

[-] yamanii@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

But we just got Portal Revolution some days ago, on steam.

[-] Mountaineer@aussie.zone 1 points 5 months ago

I'd guess the fine line is "Valve intend to earn money from something official in the future"

[-] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

We need to change IP and copyright law to add a "use it or lose it" clause for games that have been left to languish for eternity.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

just result in companies releasing even shittier games just to protect their IPs.

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[-] WarmSoda@lemm.ee 77 points 5 months ago

Portal 2 isn't an ongoing live online multiplayer game with in game purchases.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 49 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Seeing the down votes I have to say this: He has a point here. TF2 is a F2P game that generates its revenue these days from marketplace and key transactions. If someone were to remake the entire game and it was allowed to release, it would most assuredly damage TF2's revenue. A mod for Portal 2 has more potential to generate revenue because anyone interested in the mod that doesn't currently own Portal 2, would have to buy the game.

At the end of the day, Valve is still a business. This news sucks for people who love playing games, but is entirely not unexpected.

[-] sosodev@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Is it right to push more gambling based micro transactions in a game that lacks actual support?

If this were any other company people would be raging

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If this were any other company people would be raging

If this were any other company, I'd be saying the same thing. Nintendo shuts down shit left and right; most of them are mods for games that the only way to use the mods is via emulation. And it's a lot easier to pirate a game for that than it is to dump one you own legitimately.

It's certainly within their right to protect their shit. The ethics and morality of what that shit happens to be is irrelevant to the copyright discussion.

Also: TF2 is still supported... It still receives regular updates. It had one on the 9th.

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[-] verysoft@kbin.social 45 points 5 months ago

The GitHub DMCA report linked in that post seems fake to me. It's unprofessionally written and has many mistakes and inconsistencies across it.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 38 points 5 months ago

Making a Portal mod is much different than possessing and using the original source code of a game. I don't understand why they thought they could get away with such a high-profile title as TF.

[-] daniyeg@lemmy.ml 37 points 5 months ago

if there's one rule to modding valve games, it's "don't touch GabeN's hat and skin sales". TF2 despite being a real mess and valve's server being practically unplayable, still brings in millions of dollars of gambling money, and now that CS2 keys are not tradable TF2 keys are in demand for laundering money. of course they are gonna take down a direct remake of their live service game minus all the bots and shitty cosmetics.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 months ago

Not exactly. Plenty of CS mods give players knife skins and things while on the server for doing things in the server. They only work while in that server, but Valve doesn't care. Releasing a product that could be mistaken for an official product is not smart though. They just released Counter Strike 2 (which was called CS Source 2 for a long time) so they have to defend their IP from confusion. This isnt likely about money because this wouldn't hurt that in the slightest. Who had even heard of it before this post? It's just something they have to do legally.

[-] paddirn@lemmy.world 36 points 5 months ago

Seems like they were already planning on stopping the project anyways, Valve's DMCA just happened to come while they were already deliberating on it:

While we were discussing the project's future internally recently, we already came to the conclusion to stop the development of the project due to the current state of the code being unusable anymore with s&box's recent major engine changes, and that we overall moved on from it.

Sadly, this means this DMCA takedown is the nail in the coffin. We cannot bring it back and we've hit Valve's attention, it seems like they definitely don't want us to use their IP (which is totally fair and legal from them).

[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 29 points 5 months ago

I'd be more supportive of Valve if Team Fortress 2 wasn't a dumpster fire to play in 2024. The game is infested with bots that make anything outside of independently moderated community servers unplayable.

Even Counter Strike 2 has dogshit anticheat despite the boasts that VAC Live was a solution that could surpass Vanguard, to the point where the only good competitive experience you can have is to play on FaceIt or ESEA servers with their own ring 0 anticheat solution.

[-] justJanne@startrek.website 14 points 5 months ago

If you can only have a good experience by installing malware, you don't have a good experience.

I really should finish building that nvidia jetson based hardware anticheat that'd allow anyone to cheat even in vanguard protected games with perfect accuracy for just ~150$. Ring 0 anticheat's only use is to spy on you and yet people will continue defending it until someone's proven just how useless it is.

[-] yamanii@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

I don't play Valorant, but I never heard my friend that does getting pissed at cheaters over there, compared to my friends that play CS2.

[-] TwanHE@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Can only speak for the higher ranks of both games but cs2 is currently unplayable above 25k elo since its almost guaranteed to have 1 out of 10 players cheating. While i only encounter a few cheaters each season in immortal in Valorant.

[-] theonyltruemupf@feddit.de 2 points 5 months ago

I mean TF 2 is 16 years old. They just don't really support it anymore. I can't comprehend how it's still in or close to the top 10 steam games by player count when it's been dead for years.

[-] Fontane@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago

It got 14 new maps last year and hit a new concurrent player count record. It's not even remotely dead.

[-] theonyltruemupf@feddit.de 1 points 5 months ago

Yeah dead as in doesn't receive much love from Valve

[-] curiousPJ@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Valve seems okay with TF2 mods on the older engine... See https://tf2classic.com/

I feel like the TF2Classic ran into dmca issues earlier in their dev cycle as well.

Edit: yes they did https://twitter.com/tf2classic/status/1436328611485818880

[-] Deiv@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 months ago

Is tf2classic any good? I loved tf2, but the bots just made it unplayable

[-] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 5 months ago

I just wish Valve wasn't pulling a Nintendo and not aiding the fans of a game they care about, instead of just sitting on it and claiming they are doing all they can for it.

How long has it been since we were promised a major update after Jungle Inferno? How long since Valve promised community fixes? How long since Valve delayed it with "we're working hard on making it next update"? How long did Valve say they heard the community loud and clear about the bot crisis?

TF2 is my all time favorite game, but it's no longer really playable in 2024. Casual servers are infested with bots, and there's been no major changes to the game since 2017. I wish Valve cared about the game as much as the community still does dozens of years later.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago

Not all games need to be officially supported forever, tbh.

You can easily run your own server for it, so like UT99 or so, fans can form communities and play.

Basically, I'd rather them put effort into a Team Fortress 3, even though I know that's of course utopian given we never got an HL3 either.

[-] sosodev@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

If they don’t want to support it that’s fine but they should stop releasing new micro transactions then

[-] MaxVoltage@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

why do peopoe bot?

[-] berg@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago

To get in-game drops as far as I know.

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[-] eddisney@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

it's also important to consider that recreating an entire game like Tunnel Rush Team Fortress 2 would involve legal and intellectual property considerations.

[-] aciDC14@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

Being a TF2 fan is fucking suffering…

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

being a valve fan is fucking suffering.

They used to make great games, but they have no need to anymore cause steam brings in $$$$Texas.

[-] Donjuanme@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

When does valve drop everything 3? There must be development for all the sequels working in the background, right?

[-] nutsack@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

no I don't think so. they run steam instead.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

It seems like it would have been a lot more friendly to have reached out personally first instead of via lawyers initially. Seems like these guys would have been receptive.

Maybe there's some legal reason they couldn't, but doesn't seem like it to me.

[-] Sorgan71@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

how do you know they didnt

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

I guess I don't. I would have assumed the team would have mentioned it. Especially if there was communication, but it moved forward to DMCA request anyway (i.e. there was a disagreement or something). But seems like the team would have responded pretty quickly.

But yeah, I don't know for sure.

Still, it seems way more likely that Valve legal just went straight to DMCA.

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