this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025

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290

"Together we'll make X great again!" (discuss.tchncs.de)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world

49 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Context: X11Libre is a fork of X11 aiming at preserving the X Server (fair enough, right?). One of the creators got permanently banned from freedesktop.org for apparently violating the Code of Conduct (no info on that, they just blame Red Hat), see themselves as hunted by both Big Tech and "toxic elements" who "took over the X11 project" They want to "make X great again".

The issue about their highly political README (which they wrote due to the original project "becoming too political", lol) also contains the usual red flags like transphobia. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40

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[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 1 points 33 minutes ago

1000004194 Why did the discussion turned into distro advertisement?

[–] planish@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

X11 was never great.

(Like seriously, it's nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell and and proprietary stuff from nvidia that misbehaves, all the way down. Always has been.)

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 hours ago

it's nothing but config files you have to edit from the local console shell

Some people seem to love that, as well as the total lack of any kind of access control or security. I mean, look at how many people are still arguing that "Systemd is destroying Linux", clinging to initd with all its bash scripts and no nice way to prevent race conditions and such.

To roughly quote someone from a talk (not sure where I heard that, was about systemd as well I think):

"We nerds are very good at change when we're the ones proposing it, but very bad when it comes from the outside."

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 123 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Found more context, for who is now curious:

Apparently threatening violence with guns is okay (just got marked as "off-topic").
The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list

The more I read into X11Libre, the more I'm laughing. Now the freedesktop ban also makes perfect sense.

[–] daggermoon@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

YOOOOOO!!! IT'S THE SAME FUCKING GUY. I remember that legendary Torvalds roast. Good shit.

[–] mmmm@sopuli.xyz 43 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The maintainer of X11Libre, Enrico Weigelt, is an anti-vaxer who already got scolded by Torvalds for writing bullshit on the kernel mailing list

Oh, so it's him. Dude got absolutely lucky Linus is on mild mode nowadays. On his prime the scold would've been of such epic proportions all the viruses he could have on his body would've leave him out of pure cringe.

[–] Colloidal@programming.dev -3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Linus has good values, by he's also a toxic asshole that surrounded himself with other toxic assholes. And that's why both immoral people and nice people eventually get shown the door / leave the Linux project.

[–] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

He's gotten a lot better

[–] Colloidal@programming.dev 1 points 8 hours ago

Eh... Too little, too late.

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

He used to be, but he has become surprisingly chill from what I've seen. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm under the impression that "no compiler warnings" thing, as well as the introduction of C11 and Rust played a role in that. In all three instances he made an open minded decision, all of them after he realised he was wrong on numbers one and two

[–] Colloidal@programming.dev 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

He absolutely admits when he's wrong (as soon as he realizes anyway). I think it's part of his "no bullshit" value extending to himself.

His outbursts were always with good reason. But you don't need to belittle and scorn people to enforce values in a community. You don't need to be an ass. He was, and attracted people like him, and now it's darn near impossible to turn that culture around. At last not until a lot of the assholes like Ted retire.

[–] Railcar8095@lemm.ee 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Honestly, I'm fully on board of this development. It might be useful for those distros that can't move to Wayland and, more importantly, can keep the developers far from everything else.

[–] HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Lol, how will they get any contributions if they explicitly say that trans girls are not welcome? You know who run the internet?

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 day ago

The project will either die through lack of interest or over-availability of cringe. There's no way for it to succeed with this MAGA nonsense and threats plastered all over it, they'd have a hard time finding enough devs even without alienating everyone except Fox News viewers. Meanwhile they'll feel confirmed in their worldview due to all the rightful criticism flooding in.

If the project survives this initial phase of antipathy we'll probably get years of cringe from it.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 2 points 21 hours ago

Furries?

[–] Railcar8095@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago

I don't think they will get contributions. But they will not bother the rest for a bit

[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

At least his aim is shit… lol (talking about this GermaA.. dude)

[–] F4rtEmp3r0r@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Of course Lunduke is a fan rolls eyes

[–] tehn00bi@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

What is that guys deal?

[–] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 9 hours ago

He used to be fun... Like 25 years ago

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

My take is that they grew up religious and take conservative things being correct as an axiom. Its why some parts of conservative movement's are considered Christian, even if they or the followers are not that religious.

[–] juipeltje@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Idk but in his thumbnails he always looks like he has to take a shit

[–] tehn00bi@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

Probably rips a bong before taking a photo.

[–] savvywolf@pawb.social 60 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Think we can get them to rename it to xy11? You know, because only having x is part of the feminist agenda.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 1 points 16 hours ago

XXY11 so they have to learn about intersex and other way sex characteristics can show up.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

Oh is that the red hat they are blaming?

[–] jackr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 1 day ago (3 children)

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/40#issuecomment-2963760417

Yeah, that's not great, is it

[–] daggermoon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Reading that made me want to unalive myself.

[–] Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 day ago

O.m.f.g.

What even..

[–] HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 day ago

Lmao, they even tried to say that they learned it from Dave Chapel (I think, it's hard to understand) a few comments down like that makes it better. He literally used it in reference to jewish people, like come on.

[–] ivgranite@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Reminds me of the Hyprland dev and the shit that community is. https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html

[–] Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 9 hours ago

Yeah but hyprland, unlike x, is actually pleasant to use.

Not an excuse for poor behavior nonetheless, merely an observation.

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you want to know more about how unhinged the dude is, I recommend reading this email thread in the DNG mailing list.

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've been watching a lot of Miniminuteman lately. Weigelt sounds exactly like the crackpot conspiracy theorists whose "facts" are being "silenced" by "the Establishment" of "mainstream science" because "they don't want you to know this".

[–] seralth@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago

First time iv ever seen someone reference mini minuteman. Neat. The great raft was a good video!

[–] observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Very typical projection ("I'm not political, you are"), but the reactions are unnecessary in my opinion (feeding the trolls as some would say). If you don't like the attitude of the maintainer, fork it if you like, ignore it if you don't.

[–] expr@programming.dev 6 points 19 hours ago

There's no feeding going on. We're simply laughing at their expense.

[–] HappyFrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 day ago

I mean, it's funny to laugh at nazis.

[–] Mwa@thelemmy.club 11 points 1 day ago

No wonder why freedesktop nuked their repository.
And Fedora apparently wants to add xlibre to their repository (hopefully not)

[–] rodneyck@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago

X11 drama.

[+] b_tr3e@feddit.org -17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I miss the days when the OS community found -often painful- ways to deal with excentric or even toxic and erratic developers. That definitely had more class than conformist mobs celebrating each character assassination of somebody disagreeing. Not that I'd support any anti-vax bullshit or bigotry, I just dislike mobs of holier-than-thous. Because they aren't holy or as "good" as they think they are. IMO they're just the sort of people waiting for a reason to get their torches and pitchforks. I don't think that's any better, morally, or less intolerant than having unhinged opinions.

[–] Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I miss the days when we tolerated assholes and bigots instead of calling them out.

[–] b_tr3e@feddit.org 0 points 3 hours ago

You're not calling out anyone here. That has happened elsewhere. You're nothing but gossiping about it. You're not the defenders of anything but spiteful, ugly people.

[–] The_Decryptor@aussie.zone 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"No, go away."

That's a perfectly valid way to deal with toxic contributors. There's always people with better social skills and equal developer skills out there, you don't have to accept and include toxic people just because they wrote some code.

[+] Lyricism6055@lemmy.world -7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Just alienate them more and they will get better on their own.... Right?

I think the guy you're responding to is saying that communication and not alienation is how we bring these people out of whatever holes they've dug themselves into.

I know hes getting downvoted a ton, but if my take on what he wrote is correct then I also agree with him.

The reason the world is so divided right now is because nobody wants to talk through things with open minds and with empathy.

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 7 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

"Meet me in the middle" says the unjust man.
You take a step towards him, he takes a step back.
"Meet me in the middle" says the unjust man.

You can't engage such people in good faith, and it's impossible to convince them to adopt a different viewpoint. People much smarter than you have tried and failed.

[–] Lyricism6055@lemmy.world 0 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I don't doubt it... but there has to be some way to pull people back from the hole they've dug themselves into. Straight up ignoring them seems counterproductive, but you're right... I'm not an expert and im sure people have tried

It just feels sad and frustrating to me as well. This guy obviously seems to have some talent but got sucked into something that overshadows his talent with just plain idiocy on things he doesn't know anything about it seems like...

Really sad times

Edit: just read the article you sent. This was particularly in the case of sending out messaging where people can't have a discussion back with you.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 6 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Your last sentence is somewhat naive. It can often place the onus on the wrong group. People don’t want to engage with the XLibre dude with open minds and empathy any more because back when they did, he didn’t engage with an open mind or empathy. You can only do that for so long before you have to isolate and protect. Quarantine, deplatforming, and isolation works when someone refuses to engage. At some point you have to be intolerant of intolerance if you want to get anything done.

Scope some literature on deradicalization. There is only so much empathy you can give someone who thinks an entire group of people don’t deserve to be human and, more importantly, there has to be a cutoff when you’re not getting empathy back. You’re right, empathy and an attempt to understand is important. Don’t forget many people in marginalized or attacked groups have to defend their existence every single fucking day so sometimes their empathy is pretty drained.

[–] Lyricism6055@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I totally understand and I'm more ranting about this just in general.. My in laws are super Trumpers and just going down the rabbit hole. I totally get that its exhausting to argue or try to push them to think about the shit they are saying, but its the only thing I can think of that MIGHT help

Does being intolerant of intolerance actually work though?

Note: I'm not being tolerant of their views, im challenging them constantly on them in a constructive way (at least to me). It doesn't generally go over well, but it has helped seemingly to treat them with respect and to do active listening and challenge that by making them actually feel like you've heard them.