this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
1451 points (98.5% liked)

Games

32372 readers
1216 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Weekly Threads:

What Are You Playing?

The Weekly Discussion Topic

Rules:

  1. Submissions have to be related to games

  2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

  3. No excessive self-promotion

  4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

  5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

  6. No linking to piracy

More information about the community rules can be found here.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Now if only they could more clearly communicate when games are playable offline.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 355 points 5 days ago (25 children)

Ooh and it's a giant yellow banner you probably won't miss, and not some two-shades-ligher-than-the-background nonsense.

Good job, Valve.

[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 114 points 5 days ago

They do this with Early Access and people still lose their shit about empty content and unfinished graphics in a game they paid $10 for.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] sonymegadrive@feddit.uk 80 points 4 days ago (9 children)

Easy Anti Cheat - requires manual removal

Wait, so this sketchy, privacy-invading stuff remains even after a game is uninstalled?! I had no idea.

How is this stuff not classed as malware at this point?

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 21 points 4 days ago

Oh it was initially classed as insanely intrusive malware when kernel level AC was introduced about a decade ago, by anyone with a modicum of actual technical knowledge about computers.

Unfortunately, a whole lot of corpo shills ran propaganda explaining how actually its fine, don't worry, its actually the best way to stop cheaters!

Then the vast, vast majority of idiot gamers believed that, or threw their hands up and went oh well its the new norm, trying to fight it is futile and actually if you are against this that means you are some kind of paranoid privacy freak who hates other people having fun.

[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

Do you remember when Sony released cds that when inserted into Windows computer auto ran an installer that installed a rootkit that made it impossible for Windows to see any processes or files that started with a certain sequence of characters instantly turning any malware that named its files or processes similarly powerful rootkit. Oh and it installed a cd driver that made it impossible to copy their music.

Suggested removal was a full reinstall of windows.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 41 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I wonder if you phrased it the way the Play store does: This game wants permission to:

  • send SMS messages
  • make calls
  • know your location
  • stalk your family
  • raid your fridge
  • access, read and upload files
  • manage and add contacts
  • cup your balls
  • go through your trash
  • irritate your boss

etc.

Think anyone would install them?

Cup my balls? Go on...

[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

i dONt hAVe anYThinG To HIdE

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Anyone who says that while wearing pants is a filthy liar.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] vordalack@lemm.ee 77 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Any program having kernel level access is spyware. This is getting ridiculous.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 135 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (10 children)

However, it's only being forced for kernel-level anti-cheat. If it's only client-side or server-side, it's optional, but Valve say "we generally think that any game that makes use of anti-cheat technology would benefit from letting players know".

I will always love Valve for their ability to use corpospeak against corpos.

Your game has anti-cheat?

Wonderful!

I'm sure that always only results in an improved experience for all gamers, lets let them all know!

=D

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 104 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That’s awesome! GTA V just screwed everyone on Linux! What a rug pull.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 148 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (10 children)

Adding kernel malware after the fact should entitle every single owner who requests one to a full refund no matter how long has passed.

[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 49 points 5 days ago

Full agree. I do want some kind of policy for games that introduce anti-cheat both during early access and after release. Bricking a game you paid for should offer some sort of recourse.

[–] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 36 points 5 days ago (4 children)

I'd really like Valve to take an official policy on post-release changes that break games, but for what it's worth they have not given me any hassle with refunds in these scenarios.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] MyNameIsAtticus@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

This will be helpful for discerning if a game can run on the Steam Deck. There's not many games that don't have verification (Either by Valve or ProtonDB) but for newer games with anticheat it will serve as a good rule of thumb i imagine

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

Lots of games with anti cheat auto work under wine/proton. The most on top of my head example is Elden ring. Runs fine on my desktop with arch, as well as my steam deck.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] TommySoda@lemmy.world 68 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I feel like they're doing this because they are going so hard with steam deck. Regardless, good on Valve for doing this.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

The steam deck is also amazing, such a nice piece of hardware. I've been gaming on Linux for years and I'm surprised how well it works. Feels like a console.

[–] ThermonuclearCactus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I bought Sea of Thieves about 5 years ago. Recently, they added kernal-level anticheat (which does precisely fuck-all to actually stop cheating). While that is annoying, I'm not particularly worried because the studio that makes that game is owned by Microsoft, and like all Microsoft products, it was banished to my windows partition with the rest of the spyware.

[–] MoonHawk@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Well... kernel level software can access everything on your computer. That includes other partitions and unmounted drives

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago

Only if those other partitions are not encrypted. Sure, it could still wipe them - but that's something that backups are good for, and something you would certainly notice immediately :)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Mwa@lemm.ee 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

W steam/valve

[–] Woodstock@lemmy.world 42 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Can someone explain like I’m stupid on kernel level anti cheat and why I should watch out for it? Not a dig at all, a genuine question!

[–] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 103 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

To put it very simply, the 'kernel' has significant control over your OS as it essentially runs above everything else in terms of system privileges.

It can (but not always) run at startup, so this means if you install a game with kernel-level anticheat, the moment your system turns on, the game's publisher can have software running on your system that can restrict the installation of a particular driver, stop certain software from running, or, even insidiously spy on your system's activity if they wished to. (and reverse-engineering the code to figure out if they are spying on you is a felony because of DRM-related laws)

It basically means trusting every single game publisher with kernel-level anticheat in their games to have a full view into your system, and the ability to effectively control it, without any legal recourse or transparency, all to try (and usually fail) to stop cheating in games.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 66 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And it's worth noting that trusting the game developer isn't really enough. Far too many of them have been hacked, so who's to say it's always your favorite game developer behind the wheel?

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 21 points 5 days ago

Or, even better, when you let a whole bunch of devs have acces to the kernel...

... sometimes they just accidentally fuck up and push a bad update, unintentionally.

This is how CrowdStrike managed to Y2K an absurd number of enterprise computers fairly recently.

Its also why its ... you know, generally bad practice to have your kernel just open to fucking whoever instead of having it be locked down and rigorously tested.

Funnily enough, MSFT now appears to be shifting toward offering much less direct access to its kernel to 3rd party software devs.

[–] barlescharkley@lemmy.world 60 points 5 days ago

More importantly, if traditional anticheat has a bug, your game dies. Oh no.

If kernel level anticheat has a bug, your computer blue screens (that's specifically what the blue screen is: a bug in the kernel, not just an ordinary bug that the system can recover from). Much worse. Sure hope that bug only crashes your computer when the game is running and not just whenever, because remember a kernel-level program can be running the moment your computer boots as above poster said

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 36 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

Making it super simple, it runs with full access on your machine, always. It can fuck anything up, and see everything. It can get your browser history, banking details or private messages you enter, activate your webcam or mic without you knowing, or brick your computer even.

And you can't even check what it's really doing on your computer because it's a crime under US law.

Finally, it can get hacked and other people than the creator can do all these to your computer as well,as it already happened once.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Nytixus@kbin.melroy.org 42 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Meanwhile at Epic...

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 39 points 5 days ago

Common valve W

load more comments
view more: next ›