this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility

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Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!

"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.

micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"

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‘I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole’: Here’s why e-bike injuries among Gen-Xers and Boomers are spiking - The Boston Globe (www.bostonglobe.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io to c/micromobility@lemmy.world
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New research suggests riders and city planners need to make changes to keep people safe.

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[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 43 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

he said. “People, when they come in and I ask what happened, they say ‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’ Or they hit a car.”

You squeeze the brakes with your hands; it's not rocket surgery. Even the most bare-bones ebike will have brakes capable of braking hard enough to stop abruptly if needed.

This is less an issue of ebikes and more an issue that people don't know how to ride a bicycle properly. People should not be getting on an ebike if they don't even know the basic fundamentals of riding a bike.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 28 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’

Target fixation with a side of panic inaction. Also, they could stop it from hitting the pole. They didn't stop it from hitting the pole. Take some responsibility for your actions.

[–] Burninator05@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It has the same energy as "my accelerator got stuck and I couldn't stop my car". There are ways to stop the car, you just didn't do any of them.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I'll drop my whole transmission by slamming my car into park at 60mph before I just sit there and do nothing

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The only difference between park and neutral, as they both disengage the torque converter, is a small pin called a "parking pawl". It's basically not capable of stopping a vehicle. Your best bet is always the parking brake. I refuse to own a car without a physical one, they should be mandated as a safety item honestly.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Then I'll slam it into reverse. Idgaf I'm doing everything I can to stop my car even if that means it's completely destroyed.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

Yeah, this is probably the better idea. If the brakes are still working but are being overwhelmed by a stuck throttle, neutral also works. If that doesn't, you can turn the engine off as well, though modern cars use vacuum-assisted brakes, so they're going to be a lot heavier to use once the engine isn't running.

However, what I will say is that people genuinely underestimate how a panic-inducing situation will affect them. This is why every single time you fly they go over the safety information, and you should pay attention to it. The number of people that have gotten stuck in a wrecked plane because they're looking for the seatbelt buckle on the side like a car, rather than the middle, is insane. Same for those that inflate their lifejacket inside the plane and them can't swim down to an exit.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just downshift? Even most automatics still allow it.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

My point is I'd be willing to total my car if it meant not crashing into something.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 points 2 weeks ago

laughs in manual

[–] Burninator05@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I would to except I don't think I can get past neutral if the car is moving. But neutral will still stop you but at the expense of the engine instead of the trans.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why would neutral do anything to the engine?

[–] Burninator05@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Assuming that you are accelerating uncontrollably because the throttle is stuck open for some reason putting it in neutral doesn't fix that issue. It just stops the car from accelerating (i.e. fixes the symptom but not the disease). So the engine remains going full tilt, redlines, and blows itself up.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 1 points 6 days ago

Oh, sure I get what you mean. It's not like neutral itself would be doing anything damaging though.

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago

I didn't ride the bike that fast but i couldn't stop it drom hitting the pole.

Sounds like someone who was going to fast would say.

[–] Letstakealook@lemm.ee 17 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think there is this mistaken idea that if something is generally available, especially without licensing or other restrictions, then just anybody can operate/use it safely. These folks aren't even wearing proper attire or PPE for operating these vehicles. But hey, they grew up drinking out of the water hose or whatever other nonsense they think makes them impervious to the laws of physics. Truly, we're all sorry your parents didn't love you and neglected you, now put a fucking helmet on.

[–] magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I actually did get into a crash because I turned instead of broke but in my defense my brakes where more fucked than I thought til I got on, I shouldn't have been riding that thing lmao.

Also of you own a lectric xp and put a 52v battery on it, the speed limited becomes a suggestion. Ask me how I known lol.

Seriously though, next builds getting hydraulic brakes and a motor you can program to handle higher voltage batteries in a more reserved manner.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

It is more a problem with ebikes than with normal ones. Most of those people would not be nearly as fast on a normal bike than on an ebike.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 2 points 1 week ago

Bike handling skills required to ride 20mph in an urban area are quite a bit more advanced than what most people develop puttering around their neighborhood as children. It's precisely this kind of overconfidence which is causing this issue.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

skill issue, but they blame the vehicle because they can't be wrong.

Kinda like the great gas pedal scandal 13 years ago.

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm definitely out of the loop about a great gas pedal scandal, could you elaborate or post a link to something relevant?

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Basically around 2010 some people crashed their Toyota cars because the gas pedal got stuck to the floor, and there was a huge lawsuit over it. People blamed the new drive by wire throttle as the fault, saying it would get stuck at full power. Even NASA got involved at some point to look at claims that cosmic rays could be causing a bit flip that makes the car go full send.

While there were factors that may have contributed to one or more of the accidents, such as carpets getting caught on the gas pedal, with the result being every manufacturer now has to have hooks to secure the driver's side floor mat from sliding into the pedals (and dealerships will remove any unsafe floor mats during service), to the gas pedal design being redone on every car to make it harder to get stuck like that (all gas pedals are bottom hinged now), and the fact that modern cars have to override the gas with the brake, so left foot braking maneuvers and heel toe downshifts in manual cars are now virtually impossible, the real problem is mainly skill issue.

Many of the drivers involved in these accidents were old, diabetic, or both - two groups of people that have diminished proprioception, that is, the ability to know where your limbs are. They will tell you with a life to bet they pressed all the way on the brake, because when you can't feel where your feet are, your brain fills in the gaps and assumes, but they really were pressed on the gas thinking they were pressed on the brake, then monkey brain takes over as the car launches forward (or backward), and they press harder on the "brake", when they're really on the gas and that's how they full send it into the front of a shopping center building. But, you know, it's definitely not the driver's fault. Obviously something's wrong with the car.

Toyota was the focus because the Toyota Corolla and Toyota Camry are extremely popular cars among normal people and older people.

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Thanks for the write up! I'm not in the US so I'm quite often unaware of lawsuits since we don't have that system here

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

It was an interesting time. Mass panic caused a lot of people to sell their Corollas for cheap.

[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 26 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Raja, who is executive vice chair of emergency medicine at Mass General Brigham, said injured older riders he treats often spontaneously decided to rent an e-bike.

“They will walk out of a building and see a rental and say, ‘I will use one of these,’” he said. “That spontaneity means they don’t have a helmet or much experience.”

So, skill issue.

Remind me of this video https://youtu.be/2JYJF9L5YW4

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That spontaneity means they don’t have a helmet

the fuck is going through their head, other than a steel pole

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Finite amounts of blood.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Some are close to light motorbikes too. Hey gramps, go drive a motorbike without helmet or knowledge!!

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah I have a friend who owns one that is much more powerful than a motorbike. Dude gets in full biker gear (including backplate and motorcycling helmet) to drive it at full power

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

I see so many super old people on ebikes and non of them wear a helmet, ever. I saw 2 blood puddles at the side of the road with an old person and a bicycle on the side of the road in the past two years.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

That seemed very on purpose.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Old people do have less control - this is the case with cars and bikes - but while they would never get up to dangerous speeds anymore on a normal bike, an ebike empowers them to go way faster than they can control - just like a car would.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 points 2 weeks ago

Never say never, but ebikes do make it a lot easier.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Ok, so yes, I agree completely that older riders are more susceptible to crashing on an e-bike. We have enough evidence from the Netherlands to know that this isn't about infrastructure.

However, the article is a bit of a mess because it mentions rental e-bikes and other classes of bikes that you'd never see in a rental program.

Now, rental bikes, e-bike, and e-scooters come with an additional challenge: they aren't set up to rider, and have a different "feel" to what the rider might experience with their own bike.

When I read "‘I didn’t ride the bike that fast but I couldn’t stop it from hitting the pole.’ Or they hit a car.”, to me, it's entirely possible that these rental bikes (which are much heavier than most standard bikes/e-bikes), don't have the same brake system, or the rider isn't used to the brake feel of that bike.

I'm an experienced cyclist and e-scooter rider, but rentals feel completely foreign. They don't react like mine, don't stop like mine, don't accelerate like mine, they don't roll like mine, etc.

It's no wonder that the risk goes way up in rental riders who are also not experienced and/or elderly.

Around where I live, I see a lot of older folks on e-bikes. This is a GOOD THING as it gets them out, gives them independence, and enables them to explore their community with ease.

However, I'd say that a good majority are riding fat tire, folding e-bikes, which handle differently to a standard-sized urban bike (and they are significantly heavier!). The learning curve and experience needed to ride them is a bit higher because of that.

[–] Cort@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

One other factor for rentals' brakes: they could need to be replaced due to wear from heavy usage. Even with experience on the same type of rental bike doesn't mean much if their brakes are all at different wear levels.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, and also, I've heard of brakes on rental e-scooters being vandalized (cables cut), which result in crashes. It's entirely possible that sabotage also happens on rental e-bikes, but who knows how many crashes are a result of that.

[–] XTL@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago

My first thought was, who rides anything without testing the brakes being the first thing you do. But then I thought some more.

[–] Pandemanium@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I also wonder if it's even possible for people to determine how fast they are going. Is there a speedometer? If the thing is motorized, then there should be one!

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I actually don't remember if there's a speedometer built into the handlebar, or if it tells you through the app (phone mount built-in).

But I don't think it's so much not knowing the speed, but people not realizing that their effort is basically amplified. So it may feel like you are not putting in a lot of effort (i.e "I'm going slow"), but the scooter or bike is putting out a good amount (i.e. you're actually going faster than you think!).

And for those who don't know, an e-bike may have a 250 - 1000+ watt motor. An average cyclist may only be able to put out a sustained 100-200w, so they actually get the power of a much stronger rider.

[–] Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And for those who don't know, an e-bike may have a 250 - 1000+ watt motor.

True, but as far as I know, no city-approved rental company is renting bikes with anything greater than 750watts, as it would be a major liability, especially when the rental companies don't offer helmets.

If anyone's city is offering e-bikes with motors over750 watts, I would be very interested to hear about it.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

Rentals, likely not. But private e-bikes can get to 1000+ watts or more.

Even a 500w motor is a lot, and for someone who would typically ride at 150w (their own power), it would feel like they have superpowers.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Whenever I ride my bike, I'm really scared of grannies (and grandpas) on e-bikes. They have no concept of speed, no situational awareness and no control. Just like with cars, but you're not even safe on cycle paths.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Aside rom Cars my grief always and every time comes from pedestrians with dogs. Dogs on one side of the path, owner on the other, with a taut leash between them, multiple dogs and twisted leads, large dogs with older small woman owners who are unable to control them and they get pulled along where the dog wants to go Dig taking a shit in the middle if the path while I wait this morning for another example.

Just this morning on a shared path, 3 lots of people with dogs that were unable to control them properly necessitating me swerving off the path or coming to a complete stop while they try to get the shit show of crossed or twisted leads sorted. This does not mean all dogs and owners but a significant %.

[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

The ol tripwire!

[–] krelvar@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

De-walled https://archive.is/KoYVz

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

The "why" is because they're becoming more common. The more people that use them, the more injuries there will be. That is true of any type of activity where injury is possible. eBikes are awesome, despite the fact that someone can get hurt doing it. Someone can get injured riding roller skates, or skiing too, but we still do it.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Paywall.

[–] meathorse@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

I don't thank anyone else has posted this yet, so I'll just leave it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI