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How population has changed between 1990 and 2022 (i.imgur.com)

submitted 9 months ago by genfood@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de

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[-] Dmian@lemmy.world 61 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Let's make this clear: Spanish population only grows because of immigration. We have one of the lowest birth rates in the world (see https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country), but allowing immigration has somewhat contained our population decline. Without immigration, our pension and health systems would be unsustainable, unable to cater an aging population. So we have immigration to thank for what you see in that image. Countries with low birth rates and low immigration (like Japan) are actually doomed.

[-] Eldaroth@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

I guess this is true for a lot of countries on this map where population numbers have increased in the higher two digits. At least it's also true for Switzerland and yet one of the most popular political parties is actively promoting laws to limit further immigration. Not that this is surprising in the current political environment in Europe where it seems we are seeing a right shift in a lot of governments nowadays.

[-] Dmian@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Yes, I imagine that is the case for other countries, but I just talked about Spain because that's where I live, and I know the reality here. Immigration is a completely positive event. We should be really thankful for those immigration waves we had in the past.

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[-] rikudou@lemmings.world 43 points 9 months ago

Now do one without immigration. Is there even an EU country that has bigger birth rates than it did in 1990?

[-] fr0g@feddit.de 53 points 9 months ago

Which is just another reason why the aversion to immigration on display by such large parts of EU society at the moment is just so freaking dumb and counterproductive.

[-] betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com 15 points 9 months ago

I agree with you, but you can't just change the demographic makeup of any territory without some resistance from the native population. Push back is to be expected. You can tell Europeans "your people will go extinct without this", the rational response would be to accept it, but people aren't always rational.

[-] angrystego@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Well, population decline doesn't automatically mean extinction. Eternal growth is not possible. The system should not rely on perpetual population growth.

[-] betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com 1 points 9 months ago

Population decline due to low birth rates has never happened. Population declines have always been due to disease or war or something like that, taking the adults and leaving a young population behind. It's not about a system, an aging population with low birth rates probably amounts to population collapse, but we are in uncharted territory and can't know for sure how it plays out.

[-] 1847953620@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

More like almost never

[-] Sodis@feddit.de 2 points 9 months ago

Well, let's wait until the Boomers go into retirement and the economy really crashes, due to the lack of manpower. Maybe some people will change their view on immigration then.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Nah, we can just lower their pensions when they aren't in power anymore.

What are they going to do, destroy the planet for profit even more?

[-] starchylemming@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

what happened in turkey? how did they increase so heavily? didn't large amounts of their population move to central europe in that same timeframe?

[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 47 points 9 months ago

Larger amounts of Syria fled to Turkey.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 16 points 9 months ago

Since 2006 it is about migration to and from Germany is about equal. A lot of Turks moved back to Turkey as the economy grew and well with a German pension Turkey is a great place to live, especially when you speak the langauge and have family there.

Other then that the Turkey has natural population growth and Syrians and other migrants moving to Turkey.

[-] Aiyub@feddit.de 3 points 9 months ago

Turkey has brain drain. The educated people are moving away. Those are usually the ones with smaller families.

[-] Eheran@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

Ukraine pre or post invasion? So what point of 2022?

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 13 points 9 months ago

Woah. Luxembourg is BLOWIN’ UP!

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 7 points 9 months ago

Yeah, there are now a total of 20 people living there except the 6 from before.

[-] Murais@lemmy.one 3 points 9 months ago

It wanted to stop Belgium from having all the fun.

[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 13 points 9 months ago

Ireland is interesting here. I don’t believe they have as many people immigrating to them as other countries, which indicates this is mostly people not leaving as was widespread until the 00’s.

[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 8 points 9 months ago

It’s a combination of immigration and returning emigrants.

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

You mean people don't want to live in wartorn and just plain shitty countries and flee to more progressive and human right focused countries. Weird. And now those shitty countries just get shittier because those that could leave did and they are usually the healthy/smart people.

[-] Alterforlett@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Norway had a birth number of 1.41 in 2022. We are absolutely dependent on immigration to uphold our society.

We have our flaws as well, but we're not a shitty country

[-] hitwright@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

I love how russia has just a penis on it. Rofl

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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023

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