281
How population has changed between 1990 and 2022
(i.imgur.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
281 points (99.0% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
11 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Let's make this clear: Spanish population only grows because of immigration. We have one of the lowest birth rates in the world (see https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country), but allowing immigration has somewhat contained our population decline. Without immigration, our pension and health systems would be unsustainable, unable to cater an aging population. So we have immigration to thank for what you see in that image. Countries with low birth rates and low immigration (like Japan) are actually doomed.
I guess this is true for a lot of countries on this map where population numbers have increased in the higher two digits. At least it's also true for Switzerland and yet one of the most popular political parties is actively promoting laws to limit further immigration. Not that this is surprising in the current political environment in Europe where it seems we are seeing a right shift in a lot of governments nowadays.
Yes, I imagine that is the case for other countries, but I just talked about Spain because that's where I live, and I know the reality here. Immigration is a completely positive event. We should be really thankful for those immigration waves we had in the past.
That seems to suggest that relying on immigration to support a population is not a sustainable system.
Where did you get that from? I’m thanking immigration for helping our population growth. Can you please elaborate where you get that idea from?
What happens if all countries were doing well enough for immigration to slow down? Like not having constant wars and dictatorships?
What happens if your country becomes less appealing to immigrants, or gets a short surge of anti immigration leadership like the US?
If an increase in population is necessary to support retirement and your own population can't sustain that, then you are propping up a system that requires other countries to be worse off. That cannot continue indefinitely.
But I’m not proposing in any way immigration as a path to solve the problem of aging population. That interpretation is solely on you.
I’m only saying that immigration it’s just a phenomenon that happened (and it’s not happening at the same rate as in the past anymore), and that I’m glad it happened, because if not, we would be in real trouble really soon. I’m just thankful for the immigrants to this country, because it’s them saving our asses (in contrast to people thinking they’re a problem).
The causes of our aging population are other, and the real solution requires actions that I wish politicians tried to solve. Immigration was just a temporary fix, that we should be thankful for, but it’s not the solution to the problem at all, nor am I proposing it as the solution.
I think you read too much in my post.
I think you are assuming that my comment was trying to invalidate yours instead of expanding on it with my own observation.
You started your comment with “That seems to suggest…” Well, no, I’m not suggesting anything more than what I said. Just that. And I don’t feel the need to explain anything further. Cheers.
I didn't say that you suggested anything or that you need to explain anything.
Have you had a discussion where people expanded on and added to other people's comments before or is this a new experience?
It also means there is a disincentive to help bring up the rest of the world because that would reduce the rate of immigration.
The unsustainable part is having a pension and health system which relies on constant growth.