A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
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People did stop buying them. Their consumer GPU shipments are the lowest they've been in over a decade.
But consumer habits aren't the reason for the high prices. It's the exploding AI market. Nvidia makes even higher margins on chips they allocate to parts for machine learning in data centers. As it is, they can't make enough chips to fill the demand for AI.
Just like Chrome will stop being anti-consumer when people stop using it. Or Blizzard will stop being terrible if people stop buying their games. People are not very good at this whole "voting with your wallet" thing.
It's almost as if people are fucking idiots.
The unfortunate truth ain't it
What's funny is that I vote with my wallet, and I tell my friends about it and they think I'm the weird one for not having a Facebook account, not having insta or Twitter, or shopping at Amazon or Walmart or Chick-fil-A.
Then I explain it and they say, "that makes sense" and not 30 minutes later are telling me about how I should look up somebody on tiktok, which I don't have, or asking about windows 11, which I don't use, or telling me I should buy a Tesla, which I don't want, and its for all the same reasons I keep explaining to them.
You vote with your wallet. My vote goes for people over countries and corporations.
As a side effect, countries and corporations have ensured that anyone who doesn't comply gets ostracized.
Almost like people with more money than sense can outvote everyone else.
How do you even count "people who didn't buy product X"? There could be millions more, either out of revolt or sheer disinterest, but that just doesn't matter for the companies selling a product. The only votes that end up counting are the ones from people buying.
People really need to drop that saying, because the market was never a democracy and it will never be. Hell, companies can even ignore the paying customers to do something else entirely because the ones who have the most money are the investors.
The good thing about voting with your wallet is that people with more money get more votes, the way god intended.
Well... I bought an AMD card, I have been using Firefox for a few years now, and I'm not buying anything from Blizzard. There are literally dozens like me... Unfortunately, only a small number of people know these things and have these views and care enough to boycott. These companies will continue to do what they do until there is sufficient pushback (if ever) to make it less profitable than alternatives.
Almost like voting with your wallet doesn't actually work. Or only works in same way 'communism' and 'well regulated free market capitalism' concepts work... in theory only.
It works a lot better when there are many choices, fair competition in the market, and the traits being voted on are painfully obvious.
It's a struggle. Boycotts are historically very hard to be effective and I feel that the Internet has made it even more difficult. Protests need their own marketing and companies at an international scale feel almost immune from any public movements.
That said, voting with your wallet, like boycotts, do work. They just need people to be consistent and informed. But it does work.
Look at Star Wars Battlefront 2 (the 2nd). Prerelease it got over -600k downvotes and substantially hurt the game to the point that they reworked the entire system. If gamers had just bought the game and played anyway, EA wouldn't have needed to actually rework it. But they were so worried about the performance of the game that they actually made a change.
Same for Sonic the Hedgehog. He looked so, so terrible that the fear of losing money made him get fixed.
Granted, these two are examples of something becoming changed before full release, but in spirit the effect is the same. Corporation scared to lose money so changes are made to help make money. Voting with your wallet does work. It just needs to be marketed right. Edit: and I completely forgot the context here, which is that for something like tech, while consumers can have a choice, corporations do too. That's where the struggle comes in
They are also not very good in voting for politicians that actually act in their interest. It baffles me every day… what do you guys think is the reason for this?
undereducation. The missing skill here is critical thinking, and critical thinking is something that you don't usually get a lot of practice with until college. The conservative strategy of raising the price of college, refusing to spend money on student aid, and demonizing college professors as liberal brainwashers has been quite effective in keeping their constituents away from higher education.
I think quality of education is a big one too, but as long as teachers are underpaid, schools underfunded, understaffed and stretched as far as they can go, things can't improve ☹️
I agree completely! Underfunding of public schools is all part of the plan. Congressional Republicans get to send their kids to private school while their impoverished constituents are forced to send their kids to public schools that are literally falling apart. Most of those kids learn to hate school, so they don't go to college. The cycle repeats.
The browser one is especially bad since there are plenty of good options and they all cost nothing except the most minal amount of time to switch to
No, actually I don't need to buy the worse product. Privacy considerations are part of the package, just like price and performance are.
I use firefox, because in the performance - privacy - price consideration it beats chrome.
I have a Nvidia graphics card, because being able to run CUDA applications at home beats AMD.
You don't have to do anything, but you're still encouraging this behavior no matter how you choose to look at it. If that doesn't bother you, then idk why you're even replying.
All of Lemmy and all of Reddit could comply with this without it making a difference.
And the last card I bought was a 1060, a lot of us are already basically doing this.
You have not successfully unionized gaming hardware customers with this post.
One less sale is victory enough. It's one more than before the post.
What other company besides AMD makes GPUs, and what other company makes GPUs that are supported by machine learning programs?
Exactly, Nvidia doesn't have real competition. In gaming sure, but no one is actually competiting with CUDA.
AMD has ROCm which tries to get close. I've been able to get some CUDA applications running on a 6700xt, although they are noticeably slower than running on a comparable NVidia card. Maybe we'll see more projects adding native ROCm support now that AMD is trying to cater to the enterprise market.
They kinda have that, yes. But it was not supported on windows until this year and is in general not officially supported on consumer graphics cards.
Still hoping it will improve, because AMD ships with more VRAM at the same price point, but ROCm feels kinda half assed when looking at the official support investment by AMD.
AMD supports ML, its just a lot of smaller projects are made with CUDA backends, and dont have developers there to switch from CUDA to OpenCL or similar.
Some of the major ML libraries that used to built around CUDA like Tensorflow has already made non CUDA branches, but thats only because tensorflow is open source, ubiquitous in the scene and litterally has google behind it.
ML for more niche uses basically is in the chicken and egg situation. People wont use other gpus for ML because theres no dev working on non CUDA backends. No ones working on non CUDA backends because the devs end up buying Nvidia, which is basically what Nvidia wants.
There are a bunch of followers but a lack in of leaders to move the direction in a more open compute environment.
My Intel Arc 750 works quite well at 1080 and is perfectly sufficient for me. If people need hyper refresh rates and resolution and all all the bells well then have fun paying for it. But if you need functional, competent gaming, at US$200 Arc is nice.
No joke, probably intel. The cards won't hold a candle to a 4090 but they're actually pretty decent for both gaming and ML tasks. AMD definitely needs to speed up the timeline on their new ML api tho.
Problem with Intel cards is that they're a relatively recent release, and not very popular yet. It's going to be a while before games optimize for them.
For example, the ARC cards aren't supported for Starfield. Like they might run but not as well as they could if Starfield had optimized for them too. But the card's only been out a year.
The problem is, the ML people will continue to buy Nvidia. They don't have a choice.
Even a lot of CG professional users are locked into NVIDIA due to software using CUDA. It sucks.
Funnily enough I just, like an hour before reading this post bought an AMD card. And I've been using NVIDIA since the early 00's.
For me it's good linux support. Tired of dealing with their drivers.
Will losing me as a customer make a difference to NVIDIA? Nope. Do I feel good about ditching a company that doesn't treat me well as a consumer? Absolutely!
Suddenly your video card is as mundane and trivial a solved problem as your keyboard or mouse.
It just works and you never have to even think about it.
To even consider that a reality as someone who's used Linux since Ubuntu 8.10.... I feel spoiled.
Absolutely indeed! I'll never buy an Nvidia card because of how anti-customer they are. It started with them locking out PCI passthrough when I was building a gaming Linux machine like ten years ago.
I wonder if moving people towards the idea of just following the companies that don't treat them with contempt is an angle that will work. I know Steph Sterling's video on "consumer" vs "customer" helped crystallize that attitude in me.
In this particular case, it's a bit more complicated.
I suspect the majority of 30x0 & 40x0 card sales continue to be for non-gaming or hybrid uses. I suspect that if pure gamers stopped buying them today for months, it wouldn't make much of a difference to their bottom line.
Until there's reasonable competition for training AI models at reasonable prices, people are going to continue buying their cards because it's the most cost-effective thing -- even at the outrageous prices.
I mean, you could also say they'll stop price gouging when competitors can meet their quality and support level. What's the alternative?
The reason nvidia has the r&d budget it has is because you buy their cards. AMD is just now matching them on that but they used to have about half the resources.
I mean, I buy my cards second hand because I'm dirt poor, but I still want the best option for my money. It's a hard sell to convince people to buy inferior products to expand the market.
Except that most of nvidia's features are borderline gimmicks or will not have a long lifespan. DLSS will eventually die and we'll all use FSR just like it happened with gsync vs freesync. Raytracing is very taxing still for all cards in all brands to be worth it. RTX voice (just like AMD noise supression) is not something that useful (I don't even want it). What else do you have that could make an nvidia card "superior"? The only thing I can think of is that the most recent nvidia cards are way more energy efficient than amd's.
Similarly if nvidia wanted me to buy their cards they'd get their drivers sorted out. While plugging in an amd card just works with literally no setup from me, nvidia will get no money from me
You know that, I know that. Most people browsing here know that. Anyone you speak to who buys GPUs would probably also agree. Still not gonna change.
I went with best AMD I could get at the time, 7900xtx sapphire nitro. For gaming, it's already really good, I can use raytracing, although not on best settings on some games,but in most cases I can just max out the settings.
Main complaint atm is that self hosting AI is much more annoying than it would be on nvidia. I usually get everything to work eventually, but it always needs that extra level of technical fuckery.
well that won’t happen because they are still the best option for compatibility unless you’re using linux
Well when AMD finally catches up with nVidia and offers a high-end GPU with FG and decent Ray Tracing, I'll gladly switch. I'd love nothing more than to have an all-AMD PC.
And as soon as they have any competitors we might consider it