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I like how the answer isn’t “let’s make sure the people with guns are sensible and humane in spicy situations which involve unstable individuals”
Instead it is “let’s send unarmed people into potentially violent situations what’s the worst that could happen”
This is a good thing. You can always call in the police if things get violent. But, police are trained to use their guns in almost any situation, which isn't what we want when someone is in a mental health crisis. You want someone trained to help them deal with their crisis and come out the other side of it.
I could pull up half a dozen articles right now of police officers shooting people in mental health crisis situations who just wanted help. That's not what we want.
Hm... I was all set to disagree with you but it kind of looks like you're right -- it looks to me like the track record is that it works actually really well.
This is one of the things I really like about Lemmy; people having thoughtful discussions and changing their point of view with the evidence. So, kudos to you!
Thank you -- yeah, it is frustrating because it's at odds with my usual overall world view, but I'm not gonna sit here arguing against "we tried it in the real world and it definitely works better" which seems like the reality in this case.
Edit: Okay, update -- I just didn't read some important parts of the article. The ACS people work in conjunction with the police when there are weapons or other dangerous elements involved. The police like it because it frees up resources and they don't have to go into situations they're not well trained for, the community likes it because the ACS people deal with mental health crises better than the police, everybody wins.
LoL, was going to comment this is the first time I've seen this happen on Lemmy and it's refreshing af. Nice to see this person learned something today, hopefully they share this knowledge with others.
Relevant Section, with example implementation:
311/17700=~1.75%
Article Text Below:
It is rare for someone to admit to changing their mind. Well done.
This "what if" mentality, where everyone is out to murder you every minute of every day, is why cops are so trigger happy. This bullshit mentality that people in mental health distress are psycho killers is why cops kill so many.
I've participated in mental health crisis responses as a mental health professional, and I can tell you if there are reports of violence, weapons, or anything pointing toward physical danger, the police will lead or co-respond on the call. Similarly, we know how to gauge risk, IMO better than the police do. We will not engage or will disengage if we sense potential risk to anyone's physical safety and will call for police backup. When working with the public, you can never eliminate all risk, but there are already a ton of crisis social workers and paramedics out there doing this.
OOOOHH
That actually makes total sense; I guess that was the missing piece that I wasn't envisioning when I was talking about how it doesn't make sense.
As a general rule I don't at all agree with the ACAB or "we have to punish the police now" mentality, but sending mental health professionals to these calls if you're going to also have police in the subset of situations where they make sense actually sounds like a great step forward. Thanks for the insight.
Guess it helps if you read the article and get all the facts before reacting…
I think if more people did that we’d have fewer republicans.
Tru dat, 100% fair enough.
You are perpetuating the harmful and false stereotype that mentally ill people are more violent than mentally healthy people. Mentally ill people are more likely to be on the receiving end of violence from mentally healthy people than the other way around.
Bringing a gun into a situation is antithetical to deescalation. The presence of a gun means the stakes have now escalated to life and death. It doesn't matter how "well trained", sensible, or humane the person with the gun is; the situation is now escalated and thus much more volatile.
The personality types needed for each role are extremely different. Not to mention, the whole culture of police is that THEY are the ONLY thin blue line, keeping back the horrors that await you if you dare to walk outside your house. The answer is to start over from scratch from a place that doesn't favor the land owners and is considerate of society.
The personality types attracted to each role, mind you. Cops become cops because they like the feeling of having power over people, and tend to behave that way on the job. Social workers enter the field because they want to help others, which is why when somebody is in crisis, you should want to send a social worker rather than an emotionally-stunted high school bully who's armed to the teeth and trained to see deadly threats in every shadow.
Arguably you need somebody else to fill the role of police as well, but if you tried to do that the current demographic of officers would probably become something like an outlaw biker gang overnight, so it's hard to see how we get there from here.
I would say the types who stay in each role.
Lots of people want to be cops because they still have the ideal of the Andy Taylor community police officer. But they don't last because of the bad cops.
Social workers also enter the field because they want to help people. But giving of yourself mentally and emotionally takes a toll, and the people that do it for a long time become hardened.
I understood. And I am that jerk. Andy Griffith. And generally, the saying is "Mayberry" usually which is the town he policed. But you had me on Google making sure the guitarist from Duran Duran wasn't up to no good :D
Andy Griffith is the actor. Andy Taylor is the character.
Well shit. How confusing when the show is called the Andy Griffith show. Who is the asshole...this guy! :D
When the only thing you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I'm using Portland OR's street response as that has been PROVEN, since 2019, covers the whole city as of 2022. NM has similar approach
it's not about "sending unarmed people into potentially violent situations" at all.