this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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The problem is the only alternative (on phones) is handing over all my data to Google, the world’s largest ad company. I’m not sure that’s better…
Desktop is easy. Install Linux. But on phones, there’s 2 bad realistic choices.
You don't have to install Gapps though.
If you skip GApps & install a custom ROM, chances are banking & government apps won’t work… & you see some places removing their websites forcing users into the app duopoly… which is why web apps matter.
FWIW I've got grapheneOS without google play services on a financial profile, and all of my financial apps work including: -Two credit card apps -Bank app -Three investing apps -Two direct transfer apps
One of the credit cards apps (amex) does give a "warning" on each page that it needs play services to function but if I click Ok it actually still just works.
You are also locked to a Pixel device so GG if you want features Pixels do not offer
Worth trying first. In my experience, almost every app works without the Google store. You can also block the internet access for any Google service or app via its settings.
And second step could be trying microG, which also usually works.
The best middle ground is probably GrapheneOS with sandboxed Google Play Services. At that point, most things "just work" and you can at least mitigate Google's spyware.
Middle ground option has a weirdo author & is limited to Google’s Pixel line only (which eliminates one of the best parts about Android vs. iOS: device variety so you can find something specific to your needs)
I wish I could find something specific to my needs still. Headphone jacks, front facing speakers, mSD cards, and hole-less screens are hard to come by now.
Sony Xperia 10 iii has all those things, and you can run Sailfish OS on it, including VoLTE and Android app support with it.
It doesn't look like it has front facing speakers, it looks like it has that earpiece+bottom facing bs that is popular now.
Whoops, yes you are correct, you would need to go to Asus for front facing speakers. Maybe the Asus Rog 2, which can run degoogled Bliss ROM
Crazy how these went from standard features to niche in a generation. Like a sibling comment mentioned, I picked up an Sony Xperia III 5 with microG for Lineage OS installed (tho I swap OLED + <6" screen for your front-facing speaker requirement). Stupidly, not-rooted I still can’t run banking apps since custom ROMs are dangerous (but make me safer). Ironically, the banking apps I would use have trackers in them since it’s their security/privacy that matter, not mine.
I had a Nexus 6 and miss it all the time for watching videos. It was a 6" AMOLED screen with front facing speakers and wasn't this long aspect ratio thing that they do now. I wish it had a micro SD card but even then it would eventually just be too old.
Feel ya. The Xperia line still has them where you have to choose between dual SIM or microSD, but if it’s that simple why aren’t more phones offering that in their SIM tray (oh wait, they want you to use e-SIM so you can’t just physically swap it to another phone with ease)
Yeah, which is why I use de-googled "vanilla" Bliss ROM 17.2 (Android 14 with latest security patch) on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro instead of going the Graphene or Calyx + Pixel route. This way I have the hardware features I wanted (headphone jack, micro SD card slot, 5000mAh battery, 108mp camera, stereo speakers, 120mHz refresh rate) all for cheaper than a Pixel, and the Bliss ROM community is pretty friendly and dedicated in my interactions with it.
is your phone still officially supported by the oem with security patches? Because if not, no custom rom update can have the full range of security patches.
Is bliss compatible with apps and stuff?
There are "vanilla" versions (which is what I use) that are basically de-googled AOSP which work well with apps from F-droid, Izzy-on-droid, and free apps from Aurora stores, which you can also install MicroG on if you wanted to - and there are "Gapps" versions which have Google Play Services, the Google Play Store and some of the basic Google apps pre-loaded.
What is the issue with the author? I was thinking of installing graphene
He stepped down last year. A bit toxic and troubled. A lot of social media drama around it.
In USA I've found it's pretty easy to live without banking on your phone, although you can't say the same for some other countries. Granted I have a job where I am working with my own desktop computers most of the day, so I can pay bills and transfer funds on them during those times - and lots of people might not have the same luxury. But I've yet to feel a need for any of them while out and about beyond a few occasions of Venmo'ing funds on the go - and at least Venmo still allows you to use their site via browser.
Venmo is a VC-funded social media (weirdly) + money transfer app which takes a cut for doing like nothing just because you want your cash instantly. Many other countries have built-in bank-to-bank transfers with no fees or wait time & other that there’s no money to extract from this, I don't know why it doesn’t exist in the US.
Where I live, cash is luckily still king (no one uses credit & if you do, you are (rightfully) paying the credit card fee yourself), but more vendors are starting to prefer QR code payments & this year one of the banks leading the trends eliminated their online banking forcing you to use an app or do cash.
Fortunately those apps are not required (and dangerous to use anyway)
And this is why I'm getting a Pixel for my next phone, it's the only phone line GrapheneOS works on, and it has a nice long support cycle.
I wish it was available on more phones though. I know there are other projects, but they don't seem as well run as GrapheneOS.
Been using pixel phones for that reason, since... Pixel XL, and six pixel phones since then. Used several different AOSP based OS-es, most recently CalyxOS on Pixel 4a, and then GrapheneOS on Pixel 6a and now the 8 Pro.
Everything works, and you can choose how much of Google you invite back in. The best part is that the Google stuff doesn't get any special treatment. Which means that the Pixel Camera app and Google Photos isn't allowed access to Internet, because why should it?
The only thing that is still fundamentally flawed, are remote push notifications. And I don't mean that it's flawed for GeapheneOS, they work fine. It's flawed in the sense that information goes through Google or Apple. The privacy concerns there are significant. It's not end-to-end encrypted. You cannot avoid the problem either by disabling them on your phone. Each application, be that a Ring Camera, or backend messaging system, etc, that sends the stuff to Google through notification apis, will do so regardless of how much you sandbox or disable those services on the phone-receiving end. Conveniently, there is no effort by Apple or Google to make this core functionality any less tied to Apple or Google. The "asynchronous" nature makes it a problem that needs to be solved for each and every backend service system, for remote notifications. Some privacy conscious apps/services might let you limit what is sent to Google so you only get "New message from Hubbie" instead of also "Hubbie: remember to buy the paint for the baby-room! I'm so excited".
Anyways... Not sure why I went on such a long tangent. I was done pooping a while ago.
CalyxOS on a Pixel is as great as it currently gets. But stuff can get better.
Do you like the Pixel 8 Pro? I'm waiting to see what the Pixel 8a looks like. I don't expect a lot from my phone so I don't need a flagship, but I do value long term security updates and the 8 series has 7 years of updates.
I think the 8a, if it's similar to the 8, might be a better size. But, I'm also fairly sure be fine with any of them.
My current phone is about the 8 Pro size, and I think it's a bit too big. The 8 might be good enough, but yeah, I'd like to see what the 8a looks like before deciding.
@sugar_in_your_tea @okamiueru 7 years of updates is great, but will the phone's battery last for 7 years, though?
I can replace a battery, that's not an issue. I can't realistically provide my own security updates.
@sugar_in_your_tea fair enough & I suppose you could just go to a repair shop if not....
Chances are, I'll replace the phone within 7 years, but I've run past the end of updates on almost every phone I've had so far, so longer is better. In fact, that's why I'm looking to replace my current phone, I'm happy with how it works, just not happy with a lack of security updates.
@sugar_in_your_tea Same here.. Until now, I've pretty much used each phone until the batteries died or the phones stopped receiving updates. My current phone, "OnePlus 9 Pro," is different, though, because I'm considering replacing the battery when it goes and using the phone long after updates have stopped. Having no security updates doesn't really bother me because I don't actually use my phone all that much, and whenever I do, I'm pretty careful anyway.
Depends on the phone you get. You have to "do your own research" and figure beforehand which phones even allow you to install a custom ROM or different OS, like LineageOS, and evaluate if the steps required to do so (and risk of bricking) are worth the trouble. The worst part is that this shit is difficult on purpose, much like how, by default, Android won't let you uninstall bloatware, only "disable" it.
Yeah, ironically that's why the best devices for this are Google's.
almost every apple user says shit like this while using Gmail, Google docs, and the Google app on their phone and blindly giving Apple their data. let's be real for a sec and not pretend most Apple users give a flying fuck that Google tracks them. if a user truly cared about privacy, they would eventually come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter Apple or Google, privacy means not giving your data to ultra mega corps. so owning an iPhone isn't adequate for privacy either. both googled Android and iOS give your data back to their respective companies. neither are good for your privacy. one day when Apple start changing their tune on privacy policies, Apple fan boys who have put their their whole lives into the apple ecosystem will realize they put all their eggs in one basket.
Have any evidence that both are the same regarding privacy or just your personal feelings?
I don't think this is a fair point, unless someone was making the claim that Apple is some benevolent do-good company out of the kindess of their own hearts. No one really makes those claims though, I think most who choose their products for privacy reasons simple thing they are better than the other of the main 2 options, and that like any corporation needs to be watched closely. Just because I chose an Apple device at this time does not mean I advocate that they will always be a better choice for privacy (or any number of characteristics someone may care about when choosing a phone).
Again, just your feelings. Maybe statistically it's even true that most do, but at least there is a choice on these things. I can and do avoid all of these, the only things I load from google are tracking scripts embedded in websites that make it through several layers of blocking.
Not sure this is true, surely there are large corporations that are at least better than others with regard to privacy. It would be especially foolish to assume the inverse of this, that just because a company is small that they will respect privacy or act better.
I work as a mobile dev. particularly in ad-tech and security. at my comp, marketers spend 10x more on ads to iOS than Androids in the US. meaning, more advertisers come to us and tell us we want us to target more iOS users with the budget.
and most do consider apple the benevolent do-good company and many do make the claim. Apple uses privacy as marketing and the result is many people blindly trust them and their devices or at least assume the competition is flagrantly out to get them. you seem to have your pulse on things but that's not true for most iPhones users, even those who say they care about privacy.
you also can't say it's my feelings and then say it's probably statistically true at the same time lol it's is true and most people on ios still use Google front and center on their mobile experience.
while you're not sure if that's true, I AM sure it's true. privacy means your data stays with you. period. the best option is not giving people your data to begin with.
Pixel + GrapheneOS
You mean rather than handing it over to Apple..