Lafari

joined 6 months ago
[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Need to drop meat & dairy consumption in rich nations if we have any hope of managing climate change while we transition out of fossil fuels, which will take time.

 

Please don't ask for examples thanks, the question is intended as general :)

 

For example (forgive my lack of details or possible inaccuracy but it's mainly to describe the concept anyway):

At one point in time in Australia, the Greens party pushed for strong climate regulation. But it was knocked down and a half-measure was proposed instead. Rather than accepting this half-measure, the Greens rejected it in favor of pursuing their original goals which they determined to be too crucial to abandon. As a result, there was no change implemented at all and it arguably impeded progress.

The Greens were accused of "letting the perfect become the enemy of the good". But as Greta Thunberg said, "'The good' in climate terms is not safe and is closer to black comedy than reality."

Whether or not they made the right decision with the gamble at the time since they didn't have the benefit of retrospect that it wouldn't work out the way they hoped, could it be that in a dire situation, there is an argument for risking causing an even worse outcome in order to attempt to pursue a better outcome which is seen as absolutely required, rather than accepting a positive yet insufficient outcome? Would that necessarily be a fallacy or possibly just somewhat recklessly ambitious in a way that might be subject to interpretation on whether it was wise or not depending on the circumstances and the importance of meeting a goal?

Also, the phrase "letting the perfect become the enemy of the good" is often associated with the Nirvana fallacy or the perfect solution fallacy.

"The Nirvana Fallacy occurs when someone dismisses a realistic solution to a problem because it is not perfect, and they argue that a perfect solution is the only acceptable option. In essence, it's the rejection of a good or adequate solution because it doesn't meet an ideal standard.

The Perfect Solution Fallacy arises when someone rejects possible solutions because they believe these solutions are not perfect or do not solve the entire problem. It involves demanding that a proposed solution must be flawless and comprehensive, or it is deemed unacceptable.

The Nirvana Fallacy is about rejecting realistic solutions because they fall short of an ideal, while the Perfect Solution Fallacy is more about demanding an ideal solution and dismissing anything less."

I struggle to understand the difference between the 2 closely related fallacies, but my understanding is perhaps the Nirvana fallacy involves: "This solution is imperfect, and the perfect solution would be unrealistic, therefore we shouldn't try to improve anything at all." (ignoring that any improvement is better than nothing) whereas the perfect solution fallacy is more like: "This solution is imperfect, therefore we should reject it and only strive for a perfect/adequate or better solution." (ignoring that the perfect solution may be unrealistic and an imperfect solution may be a valid compromise to fall back on.) The Nirvana fallacy seems overly pessimistic/defeatist whereas the perfect solution fallacy seems overly optimistic in an unreasonable way of not accepting a valid albeit imperfect solution even when there's no reason not to i.e. it wouldn't prevent the perfect solution from still being pursued.

What the Greens did in this scenario seems more like the latter, however I feel like there's a slight difference, since they didn't just reject the imperfect solution (and take an all-or-nothing approach to pursue a perfect solution) purely because it wasn't perfect, but because there was reason to believe that only one solution could be pursued and either one would make the other impossible to achieve; in other words if the lesser solution was accepted it may prevent the chance of achieving the greater solution, and vice versa, so they rejected the insufficient solution only as a means to attempt to attain the "sufficient" solution which they viewed as absolutely necessary or non-negotiable.

So does it fall under one of these fallacies, or a different fallacy, or is it not a fallacy?

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

THIS!! Why didn't anyone else tell him? I'm glad you did. He might not die of fantasy now.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm pretty sure their underlying reason was a fundamentalist conservative Christian ideology against homosexuality as well as against feminism, which they explained. They accused me of having no morality since I'm not religious, and said that without a religious authority to govern morality, it can't exist. Like you said, all the other arguments were just distractions to cover up their true motivations for being against things like LGBT rights, women's rights, and animal rights/veganism. I don't know how it relates to their vaccine and covid ideas though, that just seemed like conspiracy theory nonsense.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The one thing they didn't demonstrate was racism, for what it's worth. I feel like racism is so uncool these days that even these types don't go there usually.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I totally should have called out that hypocrisy. You're right, they are anti-vax and didn't care about spreading COVID, and yet they used whatever argument they could think of against homosexuality including "spreading disease". Why are those kinds of people so predictable? Like not to be offensive, but why are the kinds of people who are homophobic so often also anti-vax, anti-vegan, and misogynistic Christian conservatives? I didn't even mention it but people in the comments predicted it accurately. It really is a type of person.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Oh they already made the "can't cause pregnancy" argument. It went something like this:

Them: "Gay people can't procreate and therefore they're causing the downfall of civilisation and therefore they're immoral." Me: "Not everyone needs to procreate, gay people are a minority and they wouldn't cause a decline in births on their own, plus we already have an overpopulation issue, and gay people can procreate in other ways like surrogacy/donation anyway. Gay people aren't harmful for being gay and certainly aren't immoral for simply being who they are which is fine." Them: "Cancer is a minority, does that make it ok or not harmful?" Me: "Cancer is harmful in any numbers, gay people aren't, and they aren't equatable to cancer." Them: "Gays are a cancer of humanity."

And they basically made the "not the intended purpose argument" as an appeal to nature fallacy in claiming gays people were immoral due to supposedly being unnatural. That just turned into a ridiculous semantical argument.

Them: "Gay people are unnatural and therefore immoral." Me: "That's an appeal to nature fallacy. Also, not only is something not automatically immoral (or moral) just because it's unnatural (or natural), but also homosexuality does exist in nature and is observable among other animals." Them: "Now look who made the appeal to nature fallacy. Hypocrite." Me: "I simply pointed out that claiming homosexuality is immoral because it's unnatural is not only illogical but also factually incorrect because it arguably is natural. Stating something is natural isn't an appeal to nature fallacy unless you make a normative or moral claim based on its natural status. The reason homosexuality is not immoral isn't because it's natural but because it's not harmful and is a basic right of individuals to embrace their sexuality." Them: "You said it's natural. Therefore you're making an appeal to nature fallacy. Now you also have to admit that the scientific method, scientific consensus about COVID-19 vaccines and evolution are an appeal to nature fallacy since science makes empirical observations about nature." (They also used Christianity to claim homosexuality is a sin, and were anti-vax) Me: "Again, making an appeal to nature fallacy and forming normative or moral judgments based on what's natural isn't the same as simply observing nature and drawing likely conclusions about how it functions objectively, as in the scientific method. One is prescriptive solely based on the fact of something being natural or unnatural and makes claims about what ought to be based on what is, the other is simply descriptive about nature and what is." Them: "Predictable that a gay shill can't understand words."

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

You're on point. These homophobes are also anti-vaxxers and anti-vegans and misogynists. Ultra conservative.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They think getting a covid vaccine is immoral because it's "bowing down to government interference in personal freedoms which sets a precedence for them to do that with other things". Or something like that

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

They already conceded that hetero anal sex must also be considered immoral to maintain the view. Here's what I've got; Anal isn't a necessity. Homosexual people shouldn't be framed as immoral simply for engaging in basic parts of life based on their sexual nature. Homosexuality isn't inherently harmful and certainly not immoral. It's not their fault for being the way they are, which isn't wrong in any way, and it's also possible to use protection to prevent STDs.

 

Keep in mind they're sophists so it has to be a well-structured logical argument. I don't know why I keep arguing with these kinds of people. Disclaimer: I'm pro-LGBT.

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I think I understand now, but what has left me scratching my nose (metaphorically):

Why is it called "B if and only if A", if what it really means is "B only if A and vice versa"? (Am I correct in thinking that's what it means?)

I just don't understand how that translates grammatically. To me, "B if and only if A" sounds the same as "B only if A". I can accept that they mean different things in the context of logic, just like I can assign any meaning to any label, like I could say that "dog" now means "kite" in a certain context. But it seems unintuitive and doesn't really make sense to me. Does that make sense?

[–] Lafari@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Thanks. Could you possibly elaborate? Why are they not equal?

 

Don't want to endorse Christianity necessarily but hard to get around saying the word Christmas or Xmas, so is Xmas more rebellious? Is there an even more rebellious or irreverent name for it?

Also, should I not even celebrate Christmas? What's an alternative that features the presents-giving at the same time of year but in a way that isn't tied in any way to religion (and ideally doesn't involve killing turkeys)?

 

Question inspired by the image (see attached)

 

HELLO amazing helpful Lemmitors (Lemmians... Lemurs. Whatever). I hope I can explain this clearly. I desire a pair (2) of PlayStation 2 controllers which work wirelessly via the SAME wireless dongle stuck into BOTH PS2 controller ports at the same time. This allows me to turn one off while my friend on the other side of the room turns theirs on in order to switch who's controlling player 1 for taking turns in single player games without having to throw one controller back and forth across the room. You may laugh but I have managed to find and purchase a controller that does exactly this off eBay, which is a ProGamer (brand) PS2 wireless 2-controller set with a single dongle that splits into 2 wires and plugs into both controller ports simultaneously and does exactly what I described. The problem is one of the controllers has a faulty analog stick that doesn't activate when going left, and I can't find this brand or this type of controller or anything like it to replace this set up. If you have any thoughts or solutions I would much appreciate it. Thank you 💚

And I should note that I'm unconcerned about the quality of the controller since my main requirement is for it to simply function properly and work in the ways I described. Thanks

 

humane having or showing compassion or benevolence.

 

I feel like I would make use of it more if I could do it again. Maybe that's weird, I don't know.

Edit; To ask more of a question. What would you do differently?

 

Copied from a Reddit post:

Platformer/3rd Person Shooter Hybrids

So I want to discuss about platformer shooter hybrids, and the questions I have about it.

Why aren't there more of these?

Ratchet & Clank is the quintessential Platformer/Shooter hybrid (as well as the Jak and Daxter/Jak games after the first one), but how come there aren't more games like it?

Here are a few guesses:

RAC wasn't always the most popular thing outside of the States, they couldn't surpass the sales of Mario, the charm of sonic, nor the popularity of Crash. They never peaked until they outlived their neighbors: Jak, and Sly, or now with Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.

It's hard to fuse 2 genres with conflicting themes associated with them: One with colorful characters and cheerful worlds, and another with gritty characters and serious stories. The result would likely result in an "Edge platformer" the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog.

Aside from the big names, platformers were dying in the 6th gen, they were becoming less and less common, making a new platformer IP would definitely be something companies would not really want, on top of that shooters are becoming increasingly multiplayer based, with platformers being a predominantly singleplayer genre.

Here are some other 3rd person Platformer/Shooter Hybrids I know of (other than R&C / J&D):

• MDK and its sequel predated Ratchet & added platforming elements to a 3rd person shooter

• Blasto and Jet Force Gemini mix shooter elements into Mascot-style games

• Later Sly games added gunplay, but not much shooter elements.

• There were a few games that tried to cash-in on R&C, some good, like Metal Arms and others not so much like Ruff Trigger.

• Sunset Overdrive is developed by Insomniac, however is more action-adventure than platforming, like Recore.

• There are also some indie titles like Cloudbuilt and Onirism. I'm looking for more of these.


I have tried every single of these games, and even some others barely scooting into the category like Rayman, Automaton Lung, Splatoon, or Returnal, and mostly unsatisfied (though the two 3D Raymans are good).

Looking for more 3rd person shooter/3D platformer hybrids!

 

Such as "money can't buy happiness" or "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Generally a false adage or something like that. All I could think of was "fallacious bumper sticker" which just sounds stupid.

view more: next ›