I know this isn't necessarily about race, but it is another example of whites getting their way while browns get in the way. Just gonna add another tally.

[–] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The idea that indigenous peoples should be subjugated and forcefully integrated by settlers is an inherently racial problem. This was just as true in Canada and the US as it was true in South America as it is in Palestine today.

From the Atlantic to the Pacific, the indigenous people of North America should be free.

[–] doctordevice@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

And that's part of the reason the Israel-Palestine conflict is so contentious. Both peoples are indigenous to the region, having strong ancestral ties to the Canaanite peoples that inhabited the area over many periods of external rule and migrations.

That the Jewish people were once forced from the area but retained their identity in new lands doesn't diminish their right to live in their ancestral home. Nor does it give them the right to treat their distant cousins (who also have ancestral claim) the Palestinians the way the state of Israel has.

I don't know what the solution is, but many Palestinians and Israelis just want peace, contrary to the rhetoric of their governments.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (10 children)

I'm starting to lean towards a one state solution myself. Especially the more I've learned about the fact that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all used to get along in the area before the colonization of European and Western Jewish people into the area and displacement of the locals.

Give them democracy with a strong Constitution where everyone is equal, remove all traces of ethno nationalism or theocracy from the government (except for some public holidays). Integrate the security forces, courts, and other agencies of power together, enforce human rights, try to learn from South Africa, the Troubles in England, and I heard what they did in New Zealand to integrate with the indigenous worked, too. Mix up the schools so the next generation learns to grow up without the hate for the "other" their elders have.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago

At this point, one state solution is the only possible way forward. A two state solution will not work unless conditions radically change. Maybe it never would have worked, maybe the Israeli government only pretended to be willing to go with a two state solution.

Such a thing is unacceptable to the current Israeli government because it would end their ethnostate but i don't see an option between that and complete extermination of the Palestinians.

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[–] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago

Many of the organization in Gaza understand this: they have a desire to fight for their freedom, but not a desire to lead.

[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 1 points 7 months ago

Don't forget Australia!

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[–] Arrakis@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago (2 children)

And when you consider that approx 47% of the population is (was) under 18, they really showed those ~5k kids!!

[–] doppelgangmember@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

The people talk about the "elected" government was their choice. Nah, they lied and preached democracy. Also, most of these children weren't even born or could vote yet... 🙄

[–] s1ndr0m3@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If they didn't want to get bombed, then they shouldn't have been born brown/Arab. /s

[–] Arrakis@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Those silly sausages!

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 7 months ago

should have just sold their place and moved away

[–] halykthered@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I attended American public school, just tell me how many 9/11's that is so I can be appropriately outraged.

[+] ki77erb@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Natanael@slrpnk.net 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

UN seems to believe they're not made up, don't know how they're verifying it

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 7 months ago

They're not verifying at the moment, I'd assume. The ministry's numbers were fairly accurate in the past and held up to UN investigations on many occasions, so they give them the benefit of the doubt.

[–] Questy@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

It is definitely true that the numbers are unlikely to be exact. That is both for the reasons others have noted, propaganda is definitely at play on both sides of any conflict. A second reason for the likely imprecise number though, is that many casualties are probably uncountable currently as numerous buildings have collapsed under bombardment. Fully surveying those sites for bodies is difficult with continuing combat in the area. We know the buildings are destroyed due to surveillance and other intelligence sources, but can't yet know how many people were killed and injured during the destruction.

There are also reasons that the UN and other international organisations take the figures seriously. This is primarily because of historical accuracy, this is not the first occasion of strikes in the area and surveys in the aftermath of previous incidents have generally shown reasonable reporting accuracy from the Gazan health authority. Additionally there are other international organisations on the ground and reporting corroborating evidence of mass collateral casualties. UNICEF has supported the reporting on the 3700 children killed so far, inclusive of civilians on both sides. Recently Doctors Without Borders here in Canada issued a plea to our government, based on their presence in Gaza, calling for ceasefire directly because of the unreasonably high number of collateral casualties.

At this juncture it doesn't seem likely that the numbers are precise, but even a much more conservative estimate would be quite shocking and aligns with action in the Syrian civil war (for example) much more than with action in western invasions or Ukraine. That suggests that, at the very least, insufficient effort is being put toward limitation of collateral casualties. It's also important to remember that while the three-to-one rule of casualties in war is very loose, we are likely looking at much higher numbers of wounded than killed. That is badly complicated by the blockades, lack of power and water, as well as current military operations against the remaining hospitals in the area.

Just my thoughts, not an expert.

[–] Zastyion345@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago

From 1 look at their wikipedia page it seems so.

Both sides will say what is in their best interest. You see it in Ukraine war where both sides like to make up numbers, same with Hamas and IDF its in their best intrest to seem like the bigger victim.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Deci-mating is 1 out of every 10 people, so a bit more before Gaza is decimated.

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