this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
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[–] Aggravationstation@feddit.uk 8 points 1 day ago (14 children)

I don't think communism is a moneyless system. Pretty sure people paid money for things in the USSR. Have there been any communist countries without money?

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[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 30 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And no one has to work, they are provided with everything they need. Almost like a universal basic income or something.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

More like post-scarcity. I don't think even the wildest leftist thinks we're quite there yet.

[–] kugel7c@feddit.org 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

On calories housing and most everyday things we are post scarcity if we ignore distribution. In fact we over commission and under deliver all these things. We over produce food by a factor of around 1.5, housing is much less transferable but even there we're unbelievably wastefull, energy is basically the only thing that isn't outright overproduced but really only because when we have cheap energy we just tend to use it, often to produce more stuff.

So imo we are by bookkeeping standards post scarcity, delivery/distribution is just fucked and partially because of that we are creating tons of waste.

We could all live in comfort and those who want to could work less, and none of this would break. The real world economy(things, energy, housing , food, water, logistics capabilities...) is so large and secure it could support the world population. If not for the barriers and assumptions, the intrinsic I've got mine fuck you of the systems.

For me that is being there, and I hope that even if you can't agree on that point, it at least illustrates that we are incredibly close to post scarcity.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I stand corrected. I guess some people do think we're there.

Personally, I don't think we're close yet, but I agree that there could exist a better system where we'd at least be closer.

[–] kugel7c@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago

I'm pretty sure most of this is is loosely from "Half earth socialism", which might not consider us already in post scarcity, but is at least sympathetic to the position while trying to approach the arguably more important factors,- climate change and biodiversity decline- through such a lens.

Examining how our lives could be lived, in accordance with the natural world systems, with a socialist organization of the world economy.

It's pretty readable as far as these books go, I think it might even be the first explicitly socialist book I read /listened to.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I actually take a critical eye to the word "work" itself and think that it's too encompassing a term. In our society it's a blanket word that covers all labor. From punitive, fruitless toil all the way up to invigorating, actualizing applications of trained skill. Lots of what we call "work" are actually things we could want for ourselves in a utopia and would miss without, while IRL we're currently on the crest of an economic trend in which the majority of society are trapped in ultimately meaningless and forgettable toil under wage coercion. Literally just being kept occupied and oppressed.

Put very simply I think you can slice our current idea of what work is into two halves, work that removes happiness from ourselves and society and work that adds happiness to ourselves and society. As utopians I think a society that contains only the latter is a reasonable prize to keep our eyes on.

[–] follica@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That only works when there's no scarcity. Then its up to communists/capitalists/anarchists/dictators how to slice the cake

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Yeah, pretty massive fundamental difference, lol.

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[–] blaue_Fledermaus@mstdn.io 48 points 2 days ago

The description of the first primitive church in Jerusalem is very close to an ideal anarchist commune.

[–] TheFogan@programming.dev 45 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Sadly... that doesn't really track with Christianity.

I mean you can add the overall benefits of everyones needs are automatically met. There's no talk of toiling for food etc...

But on top of the automatic fact that angels clearly have a hierarchy, god is clearly a full power ruler, there's tons of verses that talk about people that will be the least in heaven, or greatest in heaven (Matthew 5:19). On top of building treasures in heaven (Matthew 6:19) etc...

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Core spirituality vs institutional religious baggage

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[–] Cocopanda@futurology.today 19 points 2 days ago

“Not like that!” My dads response when I tell him Jesus was a communist.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 19 points 2 days ago

Shoutout to my boy Camilo Torres who famously said, "If Jesus was alive today he'd be a guerrillero."

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

Even the more devout Christians I know (who actually have opinions about different theological positions) believe Earth and human society should not be modeled on heaven and attempts to do so will fail due to humans being inherently / essentially Fallen. This is part of how they rationalize their resistance / apathy towards movements for justice, at the very least they believe it is futile to seek justice in this life.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is part of how they rationalize their resistance / apathy towards movements for justice, at the very least they believe it is futile to seek justice in this life.

Sounds like bullshit an unjust leader would feed them.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 2 days ago

It is religion ...

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Seek out and meet a christian anarchist. Those folks are badass and will change your idea of christianity's potential (I'm agnostic).

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

My concept of Christianity is rather expansive, and Christian anarchists are often inspired by Tolstoy, who is someone I have read about and whose works I have given some attention. I can confirm they are rather different than most Christians - Tolstoy in particular rejected the Church after he saw they were committed to enabling war, which is clearly un-Christian. Dorothy Day is another relevant Christian anarchist, and I have worked with a Catholic Workers House locally, so I have some IRL exposure to these folks as well.

I tend to think "Christian" is an almost meaningless term without more context or clarification, people who call themselves Christians hold opposite views on many different positions. "Buddhism" is no different, if anything it is worse, so this isn't particular to Christianity. Nor is it particular to religion, Marx spent some time in the Communism Manifesto clarifying what he meant by "socialism" and the different kinds of socialism he was aware of - there are many such overloaded terms and concepts. It seems particularly common in any political context, where there is power struggle it seems there are struggles between meanings for a particular word.

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[–] Future_Honkey@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Is the 0 getting around a commie filter or?

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's 0 because communism is a moneyless system

[–] Future_Honkey@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago

Shit i have got to read more the0ry

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago
[–] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

difference is that in heaven people dont have need to produce, so presumably no means of production even exist

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