this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
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Memes

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[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 52 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

The thing to understand about Christianity is that it was originally a reaction against the Roman empire and then got co-opted and integrated into it. As a result, ever since like the 4th century Christianity has been about basically the opposite of what Jesus talked about. It turns out all that stuff about turning the other cheek stops being relevant if the emperor has his soldiers paint crosses on their shields while they're out conquering and enslaving the Gauls. Of course, you can keep all the mythological stuff, who cares, but anything relevant to politics or the material world mysteriously seemed to reverse once they entered the halls of power.

The carrot of being accepted into the empire was matched with the stick that if you didn't go along with the imperial-approved form of Christianity you'd be burned at the stake as a heretic. Any sects still clinging to anti-imperial sentiment get hunted down and exterminated just like when they were being fed to lions, but it's the Christians doing it to each other now, so you don't even have to get your own hands dirty. This approach worked way better at suppressing dissent than just trying to ban Christianity altogether.

Of course, a lot has changed over the centuries. And originally it wasn't perfect or anything either. But imo, it was when Rome Christianized that Christianity Romanized, and ever since its real values have had more to do with Rome than with Jesus. The meme's, "moneyless, classless, stateless" ideal of heaven is a relic of the original teachings that gets shunted off to the purely mythological side, where it not only doesn't matter, but also occupies a place in their brain that could have otherwise been sympathetic to making good things happen in the material world. That's already resolved, there's no need to worry about it, there'll be pie in sky when you die.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 weeks ago

Oh it makes sense now, recuperation is not a capitalist concept, it is an imperialist concept!

[–] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 9 points 3 weeks ago

They didn't keep the mythological stuff, that got edited out too as needed once it started disagreeing with the State and the Church.

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[–] blaue_Fledermaus@mstdn.io 49 points 3 weeks ago

The description of the first primitive church in Jerusalem is very close to an ideal anarchist commune.

[–] TheFogan@programming.dev 45 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Sadly... that doesn't really track with Christianity.

I mean you can add the overall benefits of everyones needs are automatically met. There's no talk of toiling for food etc...

But on top of the automatic fact that angels clearly have a hierarchy, god is clearly a full power ruler, there's tons of verses that talk about people that will be the least in heaven, or greatest in heaven (Matthew 5:19). On top of building treasures in heaven (Matthew 6:19) etc...

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[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 38 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That's because there are no brown people in their version of heaven.

[–] udc@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago

Ah now it all makes sense

[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 31 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And no one has to work, they are provided with everything they need. Almost like a universal basic income or something.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 11 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

More like post-scarcity. I don't think even the wildest leftist thinks we're quite there yet.

[–] kugel7c@feddit.org 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

On calories housing and most everyday things we are post scarcity if we ignore distribution. In fact we over commission and under deliver all these things. We over produce food by a factor of around 1.5, housing is much less transferable but even there we're unbelievably wastefull, energy is basically the only thing that isn't outright overproduced but really only because when we have cheap energy we just tend to use it, often to produce more stuff.

So imo we are by bookkeeping standards post scarcity, delivery/distribution is just fucked and partially because of that we are creating tons of waste.

We could all live in comfort and those who want to could work less, and none of this would break. The real world economy(things, energy, housing , food, water, logistics capabilities...) is so large and secure it could support the world population. If not for the barriers and assumptions, the intrinsic I've got mine fuck you of the systems.

For me that is being there, and I hope that even if you can't agree on that point, it at least illustrates that we are incredibly close to post scarcity.

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[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 28 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Heaven was literally [re]invented to be a description of utopia specifically so that toiling workers wouldn't get distracted trying to create it on Earth.

"oooh heaven is a place on earth" take that shit literally, fam

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[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (10 children)

Even the more devout Christians I know (who actually have opinions about different theological positions) believe Earth and human society should not be modeled on heaven and attempts to do so will fail due to humans being inherently / essentially Fallen. This is part of how they rationalize their resistance / apathy towards movements for justice, at the very least they believe it is futile to seek justice in this life.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is part of how they rationalize their resistance / apathy towards movements for justice, at the very least they believe it is futile to seek justice in this life.

Sounds like bullshit an unjust leader would feed them.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 3 weeks ago

It is religion ...

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[–] Cocopanda@futurology.today 19 points 3 weeks ago

“Not like that!” My dads response when I tell him Jesus was a communist.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 19 points 3 weeks ago

Shoutout to my boy Camilo Torres who famously said, "If Jesus was alive today he'd be a guerrillero."

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 14 points 3 weeks ago
[–] Future_Honkey@hexbear.net 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Is the 0 getting around a commie filter or?

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's 0 because communism is a moneyless system

[–] Future_Honkey@hexbear.net 14 points 3 weeks ago

Shit i have got to read more the0ry

[–] ClathrateG@hexbear.net 9 points 3 weeks ago

Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth?

[–] ProbablyBaysean@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Well, something that the Mormons have is they tried out communism. They called it the law of consecration. They had some fun times with trying to handle being productive and redistribution and poligamous. They ultimately concluded that they weren't ready for it yet so they went back to default capitalism with tithing and poor/fast offerings.

Tl;dr: Mormons believe in a kind of communism in heaven, and they go hungry for 2 meals (24 hrs) to remember to give generously to the poor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_consecration?wprov=sfla1

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[–] Aggravationstation@feddit.uk 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

I don't think communism is a moneyless system. Pretty sure people paid money for things in the USSR. Have there been any communist countries without money?

[–] aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee 28 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Yes, which is why the USSR never once in its history claimed to have built communism. The best they claimed was "developed socialism" with promises to build Communism someday

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Communism is a post-Socialist society, it must be global, highly developed, and have full public ownership, or close enough to those. The Soviet Union was, instead, Socialist, ie an economy where public ownership is the principle aspect. That being said, there were attempts at Cybernetics, and moving beyond money. These are actually incredibly interesting, and anyone interested in Socialism should look into those attempts.

If you want to learn more about Socialism and Communism, I recommend checking out my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Oh shit, I need to watch that! Thanks, comrade!

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