this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 179 points 6 days ago (1 children)

'Diversity hire' is the old derogatory term that implies someone is unqualified and only hired because of their skin color or genitals, so they already openly hate diversity.

They don't know what equity means. They probably think it means equality, and they hate that too because in their minds equality requires giving up their relative standing in society.

They hate inclusion because they hate diversity.

The meme is though provoking for someone who already understands the concepts and is useful for bringing awareness to 3rd parties who are otherwise apathetic. It won't make the person who is put on the spot reconsider their opinion, but that's because they are morons who fell for the anti-DEI propaganda.

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 70 points 6 days ago (19 children)

"WELL I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN THEY WON'T HIRE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE QUALIFIED"

They genuinely believe that white men are at a significant disadvantage in the workforce because DEI hires. No amount of memes or conversation will convince them how ridiculous that is.

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 56 points 6 days ago (5 children)

So funny story, my department had an employee survey and one of the questions that triggered a need for "team discussion" was:

"Do all people, regardless of race and gender, have good opportunities in our workplace?"

Evidently one person in the department said "no, they do not". So I'm sitting there wondering "oh crap, we are a bunch of white men except one woman and one black guy, which of those two have felt screwed over due to race or gender". But no, an older white guy proudly spoke up saying there's no room for white men at the workplace, that white men are disadvantaged. In a place that's like 90% white men...

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[–] fourexample@lemm.ee 43 points 5 days ago (4 children)

I think it's important to distinguish between diversity, equity, and inclusion as CONCEPTS and DEI as an organization and initiative.

It is possible to be pro- diversity, equity, and inclusion and be opposed to mismanaged efforts in DEI as a PROGRAM.

This post assumes that DEI as a government initiative is working perfectly and has no downsides, presenting it in a way that closes it off to criticism.

Does every system have to be perfect? Of course not. It's better to have a system pushing for good that's imperfect than none at all, but framing it like this is gaslighting and hurts discussion on both sides.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

It's even worse in the corporate world. That acronym is usually attached to consultants who would extort huge fees and not really do much of anything towards actual inclusion, equity, or diversity. It would let the company check a box for PR, though.

[–] treesapx@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

That's not what this post assumes. This post is aimed at those using DEI as a dog whistle for their disgusting bigotry. Present all the nuance you want but if you're missing that then you're turning a blind eye to the blatant racism gaining power and leverage in the US gov today.

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[–] _lilith@lemmy.world 83 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Same thing as when old people said they were against Antifa or antifa was causing violence. Anti Fascist. You don't support the Anti Fascists. Are you ok with the Fascists then? Shuts the boomers up because they remember daddy fought the Fascists even if their lead addled brains can't remember what that is

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 29 points 6 days ago

It's not civil rights, it's woke

It's not anti intellectualism, it's anti woke.

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[–] Punchshark@lemmy.ca 49 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Can also use "Elon" for the E.

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[–] labrat55@lemmy.world 33 points 6 days ago (5 children)

If you're opposed to DOGE, does that mean you're opposed to efficiency in government?

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 32 points 6 days ago

Do you support democracy?

If so then that must mean you support the DPRK.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 26 points 6 days ago

Government should not be efficient, at least not in what the business class calls "efficiency".

Government is the entity that performs those tasks that need to be done, but nobody wants to do. If those essential tasks can be done "efficiently", everyone is going to want to get paid for doing them.

[–] forrgott@lemm.ee 9 points 5 days ago

Yes. Emphatically so.

The more efficient government is, the easier it is to usurp power.

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[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 5 days ago

If you hate the PATRIOT act...etc. Look, titles of things have no bearings on what they actually are. This post is just group masturbation.

[–] RamenJunkie@midwest.social 41 points 6 days ago (9 children)

Reminds me of the "Lets Go Brandon" crap.

Like, if you really dislike Biden, just say "Fuck Joe Biden.". I have zero issue saying "Fuck Trump," because, fuck trump.

Locally in Illinois there were also these signs everywhere that said "Pritzker Sucks" in huge letters, then at the bottom in tiny print "the life out of small business."

Like seriously, I am less disgusted by your stance, than I am about your pussy ass lack of conviction.

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[–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 days ago

I am on your side, but:

You do realize that can totally go the other way, right?

The AFD implements a "ministry of crime-prevention" that surveils the public and squashes political discent. Names don't necessarily reflect what's actually happening. You should argue with actual policies they did.

[–] Obline@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Most people who are against DEI are against the "E".

They believe that equality is the end goal, not equity.

Equality = equal opportunity

Equity = equal outcome

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

Hey! I have a story on this to tell, which I will make as anonymous as possible:

Someone I know in an administrative position is in the middle of dealing with an employee who is suddenly refusing to do annual DEI training, claiming that it is against their religious beliefs. They were brought in and given a chance to defend that. Asked what specifically about DEI went against their beliefs. They started spouting a bunch of Fox News crap.

It was pointed out to them that DEI means things like making sure disabled people can get over a raised doorway. The employee said they were fine with that, but went into a whole "gay marriage is sinful" sort of rant. They were told they don't have to agree with such things, just respect them at work. And they said that was great and one of the things they loved about working there.

Basically, it turned out that they had zero issues with any of the actual DEI policies. They literally objected to those three letters being used.

[–] mechoman444@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago (20 children)

This post attempts to frame opposition to DEI as opposition to the literal meanings of the words rather than the policies built around them. That’s a false dilemma. One can oppose DEI initiatives that sacrifice meritocracy and individual achievement without rejecting the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion in their purest forms. A system that prioritizes individual ability, effort, and competence over group identity is the foundation of real progress and innovation.

We need to be fighting nepotism, not implementing DEI policies that replace one form of favoritism with another. Nepotism undermines meritocracy by prioritizing personal connections over competence, but DEI hiring, when based on demographic factors rather than qualifications, does the same by shifting the bias to identity. The goal should be a system that rewards individual ability, effort, and achievement—ensuring opportunities are earned, not granted based on who you know or what group you belong to. True fairness comes from eliminating favoritism altogether, not redistributing it.

It seems we are forgetting the folly of the greater good.

That being said, everything I’ve read about companies that implement DEI—aside from some questionable journalism in the gaming industry—suggests that they are actually about 27% to 30% more profitable than those that don’t.

I just don’t like this post in general; it seems like one large logical fallacy.

[–] Ulvain@sh.itjust.works 45 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

"We need to be fighting nepotism, not implementing DEI policies that replace one form of favoritism with another"

Sure, except no DEI policy worth its salt ever does that. Day 1 on the job in actual DEI, the difference between tokenism and inclusion is taught, and a policy or practice where unqualified people are put in positions solely because of their identity are not DEI policies.

It's about giving equal access and opportunity to equally qualified diverse candidates that, because of systemic biases and obstacles, they wouldn't have had access to.

Saying "we need a guy on a wheelchair in the legal team, to look good, so hire this guy without a law degree" is dumb tokenism.

Saying "hey now that we don't do 'jog-and-talk' interviews on the 14th floor of a building without an elevator, we were able to interview and hire Joe, a great lawyer in a wheelchair" is implementing a basic DEI change.

Decently done DEI is about making it easier to select the most qualified talent from a qualified, talented and diverse slate of candidates.

NOTE: I don't think you seemed to disagree with the above, it was just funny to me that you started highlighting the false dilemma, then articulated another one :)

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[–] Ensrick@real.lemmy.fan 13 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

A friend of mine used to do food runs for his office, where about 40% of the employees were black. The team voted on what they wanted, and they almost always chose Wing Stop because it was popular. Despite this, he was called into a meeting and accused of racial profiling for bringing "fried chicken" to a mostly black workplace. This experience reflects the way DEI programs often operate. They focus almost excessively on race, and identity, and thrive on controversy.

Originally, these initiatives created programs where people who came to companies did so to fix the issues and leave. Apparently that didn't work./ Instead, they’ve become permanent fixtures in workplaces, incentivized to perpetuate problems rather than solve them. With their continued presence, they encourage reporting and policing of behavior, creating a culture of fear and compliance rather than genuine inclusion.

DEI initiatives have failed. They've been in place for several years, yet we always hear constant rhetoric that racism and discrimination is becoming more of a problem? Instead, these programs have probably radicalized more people than any fringe political group. Many now define their views in opposition to their perceived opponents rather than on principles.

Ironically, DEI encourages prejudice. I’ve personally been told to create a bias in favor of minorities to combat existing bias, which only results in a new form of discrimination; it doesn't eliminate the existing biases. The approach based on "privilege" encouraged me to assume all black people are disadvantaged and all white people are privileged and implicitly biased. Guilt and shame are used as tools to enforce conformity, pressuring people to adopt a specific moral stance while condemning those who don’t. People are praised for being sanctimonious. It's become popular to call out others while simultaneously making self-righteous shows of one's own behavior.

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I'm sorry to say that their answer will be something along the lines of "I ain't workin' with no n****s or f**s!". We should stop trying to assume that fascists hold themselves to the same moral standards as normal people. These are people who only abstain from using racial and homophobic slurs for fear of legal trouble. They no longer have to fear that.

[–] redwattlebird@lemmings.world 21 points 6 days ago (2 children)

As someone outside of the US, all I can see is people fighting over who has a right to a job and who doesn't, while the rich hoard wealth. DEI wouldn't be an issue if there was a safety net, maybe with UBI based on the minimum liveable wage, public housing, public education, public healthcare and government grants to start small business ventures.

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[–] paequ2@lemmy.today 26 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (9 children)

Has someone actually been on an interview panel, where you decide to hire someone because they're black?

(I definitely haven't. Although, I haven't been in a position that was in charge of mass hiring.)

[–] plm00@lemmy.ml 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

I have been a part of interviews (at a computer repair shop, mostly men) where my boss said we had to hire the only woman interviewee because it looked bad to not to, and we needed diversity, even though she wasn't very qualified. So we hired her instead of the person who had excelled in the interview.

At my next job we had some diversity hires. It was pre-DEI, but we had a diversity intern program. We hired a guy because he was black, he was qualified and was amazing. Later we hired a person who was also black and wasn't very qualified, they struggled for months and eventually quit - we had hired them based on skin color too.

Not saying I'm for or against, but I've seen situations where diversity became more important than qualifications. I've also seen where both were equally important, and that was preferred.

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[–] underwire212@lemm.ee 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

I mean I certainly don’t oppose getting rid of DEI but let’s not be haste in assuming what something is called is actually what it is.

Is North Korea a Democracy? They are called the DPRK no? Democratic people’s republic?

Edit: Meant to say I do oppose getting rid of DEI. English is hard

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[–] qfe0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 6 days ago (5 children)

I broke out my thesaurus, so anti diversity, equity and inclusion would be conformity, discrimination and segregation. Does that sound about right?

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[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This is also why "woke" becoming a common word was bad for both sides. Not only is it nonspecific, but it starts to mean different things to different people and diverges over time. It's easier to demonize something with a nonspecific meaning for exactly that reason.

There's a meme that says "everything I don't like is woke", and while it's funny, that's literally the process that happens when such terms become catchalls -- what they catch depends on what any individual speaker wants out of using it.

With DEI, the process has been the same. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people who believe it's bad (because they were told that and lack critical thinking skills) and may not even know what the acronym stands for.

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[–] mohammed_alibi@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)
  1. I support diversity, equity and inclusion in giving people the chance to get a good education and achieve good outcomes through their own efforts (with good teacher and mentor support).

  2. For things that are beyond secondary education, I support a race-blind color-blind culture-blind meritocracy where the best qualified people should be admitted to universities and jobs (private or public sector).

These are my ideals. But with that said, today we have none of these in the US. And never had it. Also people and systems created by people are imperfect but people are good at finding loop holes and ways to game any system.

But I still think our best hope is to do our best to support #1. We have the funds to make schools in poor neighborhoods better and pay all teachers more. The outcome of doing #1 will not be felt immediately, it will take generations.

Neither side of the political spectrum does or care about that though.

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