US's Blinken says no to any Ukraine peace deal that doesn't include total Russian withdrawal (apnews.com)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

100 comments fedilink hide all child comments

“We believe the prerequisite for meaningful diplomacy and real peace is a stronger Ukraine, capable of deterring and defending against any future aggression,” Blinken said in a speech in Finland, which recently became NATO’s newest member and shares a long border with Russia.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] Cragsand@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

It's actually upsetting to read some people defend an illegal war of aggression in this thread. Just practice the golden rule for a change and imagine yourself being in the same situation. What if it was your country being invaded? Would you take up arms to defend your family, your friends, your neighbors? The bombs are dropping everywhere, and you have to hide in basements to prevent their terror attacks from taking away all that you hold dear.

Of course a country being invaded has the right to defend themselves and the right to fight back. The aggressors could end this war immediately but they wont because their leader is an insular autocrat. Isolating himself and giving orders without considering the best for the rest of the world. Devaluing human life from on top of a pedestal. This is the danger what happens when one single individual gains too much power and the rest of the world needs to be unanimously against it regardless of blind idealism.

[-] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

I would flee from the front line and I recommend everybody else do the same. Why get involved when states fight over their sphere of influence? Ukraine isn't a state worth giving your life for. US imperial hegemony (a major reason for this conflict) should not be supported. They will abuse any support given to further their own goals and throw you (or anyone) under the bus when convenient.

load more comments (13 replies)

[-] nothendev@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Do I understand it correctly, that "total withdrawal" is giving back the regions that agreed to be with Russia, alongside getting the troops back?

[-] Rhabuko@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

You mean that separatist regions that got installed by Russia and would already have lost without the Russian troops intervention in 2014 - 2015? That regions that have a government of brutal former criminals (that brutally oppressed every opposition)? Yes those too. If the people really want to be part of Russia, they can ask for a fair referendum with international observers after Russia fucked off.

load more comments (15 replies)

[-] Phantom_Engineer@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Ha, the local tankies are starting to find out that they're outnumbered by reddit-fuges. Still, I believe that barring a negotiated peace, the war will continue for many, many years. The alternatives are either Russian withdraw and/or regime change or Ukrainian collapse, and neither seem likely in the near future. Even Kissinger, which is as blood-thirsty as they come, has suggested a negotiated peace, and it's hard to imagine a negotiation that doesn't concede something to Russia. The question isn't a moral one. The deaths will continue to pile up until negotiation begins.

[-] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

look, no reasonable person wants war-- but that's the problem: those who started the war and are continuing it aren't being reasonable. And they're not going to negotiate any sort of peace if they don't get what they wanted by stating the war in the first place: a slice of Ukraine. so, also believe there won't be any peace until Russia leaves Ukraine, and that may take years to convince them to do-- at the barrel of a gun, sadly. Possibly a Russian regime change.

as for the local tankies... i don't know how much of that you read, but when attempts at rational arguments failed, they just resorted to personal attacks and bullying, which is nothing foreign to me. battle-hardened with the most toxic of reddit trolls, it just rolls of my back. :P

[-] Phantom_Engineer@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I initially joined lemmy about 2 years ago, and the place was swamped with them. They have their own instance they hide out on, which lemmy.ml federates with but beehaw.org and sopuli.xyz do not. It will be interesting to see how the lemmy landscape evolves as time passes on.

[-] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

yeah... i have an account on both lemmy.ml, and on beehaw.org. currently, I'm sticking with lemmy.ml just because I want to see more content, and I think I an handle the shitty people due to having a think skin, but it's nice to know that there are nicer instanes, should i need to deal with it on those terms.

[-] wesley_cook@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Is there a way to block an entire instance in Lemmy like you can with mastodon? Or to just hide all the posts from them?

This thread has made me realize how insufferable they are

[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ukraine will at least need to make some sort of compromise over the port at Sevastopol. From what I understand, that's the only port available for Russia's Black Sea fleet. Russia has historically held a naval base there and would likely be unyielding on that point. Forcing Russia to butt out is one thing, but them losing significant amounts of their defense capability is another.

[-] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

heh, I'm sure Russia very much feels this way, but I don't see how Ukraine needs to make any compromises at all, nor why Russia should be given the opportunity to save any face. They got themselves into this mess and have done some terrible things. They deserve to crawl away with their tails between their legs with nothing to show for it. Why should they get anything after what they've done?

[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I fully agree that Russia crawling away with their tail between their legs would be the ideal solution. But at what price? Russia would be willing to spill a lot of blood over that base, even compared to an already bloody war. The reality is that starting negotiations with the assumption that the end agreement will include guarantees around Sevastopol will save a lot of lives without making a huge change from the 2014 status quo.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

[-] calcifer@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Bunch of people keep talking about how the US shouldn't broker peace deals and China should. Hypocrisy at its finest.

The fact is, having a third party nation recommendation for peace or no peace is a standard for centuries, and if that nation is a global hegemony with nuclear weapons, then it makes sense.

load more comments (4 replies)

[-] juergen_hubert@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Imperialism is bad even when it's not the USA doing it.

Ukraine absolutely deserves our support in this war.

[-] baronvonj@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Hard agree with Blinken here.

[-] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

honestly, i can't see how any reasonable person wouldn't.

edit: russia has proven, repeatedly, that they don't honor their agreements. the only way that they won't invade again is if they're kicked out and if Ukraine has a modern military fully capable of kicking russia's ass if it tries again.

[-] Zagaroth@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Supporting Ukraine is the only U.S. military action since WW2 that I can truly support. Even our action in response to 9/11 was fucked up.

[-] cavemeat@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Same, its one of the only decisions the US has made that is pretty solidly good.

[-] Ninmi@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

This has been a major reality check for me personally. For years I shook my head at the gargantuan US military budget thinking it's ridiculous. Fast forward to February 2022 and I realize it's the US once again cleaning up when Europe shits the bed. Ashamed, thankful and thoroughly convinced we need to spend a whole lot more in defense as well.

[-] JillyB@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Idk about all that. The US has supported Ukraine and I support that. But Europe has stepped up to the plate too. While US refused to provide long range HIMARS, UK provided Storm Shadow. Poland has donated about all it has. Realistically, the US could drastically reduce it's defense spending, provide all the support Ukraine could want, and still maintain the largest military force by a large margin.

[-] Ninmi@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well that's what I'm saying. European countries are giving all they've got to give while the US hardly breaks a sweat, yet the US provides a disproportionately large amount compared to the rest. Europe would be in a lot more trouble without the US, once again.

And I agree the UK deserves a lot of credit for pushing the envelope with tanks and long range and being the security provider for Sweden and Finland during the application process.