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Interesting, that's good to know! Is iodéOS significantly better than eOS or just a marginal improvement? Getting it pre-installed seems to be about 100€ more expensive, I'm not sure if that's worth it for me (and I'm unwilling to flash an OS myself)
In my personal opinion it's significantly better! Though me testing /e/OS was in its early days.
Looking around, the latest release available is from ...February?
I would not recommend this to anyone if that's true.
I use /e/OS on my OP7.
- Their tracker/ad blocker is great.
- Their app store has a rating about privacy/tracker for each apps.
- They implemented tor in the OS, and you can choose if you want to activate it and for which application.
- They have a mock location feature.
- I get monthly update, and it works smoothly.
- You do not need to use murena account to use the OS
For the drawbacks :
- They have an app store that can install both applications from the play store and from Fdroid, but it isn't very convenient as you can't add Fdroid repos, nor uninstall applications with it. (and I'm unable to use it to install applications from the play store for more than a month, I've installed the aurora store )
- Most of their system applications are open sources applications available from Fdroid but with a different icon and name.
- Their navigation application named "Maps" is a rebrand of magic earth.
It's all I have in mind at this moment.
When I'll change for a fairphone, before turning to /e/OS, I'll probably try iodé OS. It seems they have similar privacy /anti-ad features but the OS might be less bloated and the system app are not rebranded, they keep their original name and icons.
/e/os is LineageOS + microG with an easy installer available or pre-installed purchase. The interface design is based on how iOS works, for example to move an icon on your phone long press one of the icons and wait till they all go wiggling and then drag the icon to where you want to have it.
I think /e/os is okay for folks who want a deGoogled phone that comes pre-installed.
In case anyone wants to try the /e/os easy installer on an old and supported phone, the /e/os easy install is really much more easy compared to plain LineageOS install.
The interface design is based on how iOS works, for example to move an icon on your phone long press one of the icons and wait till they all go wiggling and then drag the icon to where you want to have it.
In case you don't like the interface, you can also simply install a different launcher and set it as the default start app. There really is a lot to choose from: https://android.izzysoft.de/applists/category/named/tools_launcher?lang=en
Are launchers reasonably fast nowadays? I think the last time I put one on my phone was around 2014 and I removed it very quickly because the slight lags and delays at every corner really annoyed me. I've never used iOS, but I guess I could get used to it if it means not having excessive lag when using it haha
In my experience, I can't see any difference in speed between different launchers. But just try it out, install a few and then delete the ones you don't like.
I use lawnchair as a replacement of the launcher from /e/OS. It is fast and customisable and has a more android type look. Fossify could be another option, maybe lighter than lawnchair.
The original one is smooth, but I do not like IOS launcher and icons type.
I have a Fairphone 4 with preinstalled /e/OS and I can say I really like it. I really don't miss the Google Apps, but if you would need any you could install most of them. Lastly they had a major server fuckup (many Murena services were unavailable, like Update and Drive) but that's solved mostly now.
I've used it for four years on my Fairphone 3 with no serious issues. I don't use their cloud storage solution so the recent outage didn't affect me at all. My battery often lasts up to 40 hours. I am very careful with what I install on the phone, but it works and is private/secure enough for my threat model. I recommend it wholeheartedly
I have a fairphone 5 running /e/os, and my previous phone was a galaxy S9+ running IodéOS.
Unfortunately i don't have time to write a whole review for you, but if anyone have any specific questions about either i'd be happy to answer them when i get time.
Which of the two OS did you like more from a usability standpoint? :o
Sorry for the late response, the thunder app doesn't give me notifications. 😅
It really depends on your usage.
/e/os feels more polished in general, but widgets are only available in a drawer when you swipe to the left from the home screen and there's no app drawer, so everything needs to be on your home screen.
And the settings seems more convoluted and hidden, not quite apple like, but a bit less usable than stock android.
Iodé has more of a stock android feel, but i've also encountered more bugs in it in general.
Most of my gripes with /e/os could be fixed by installing a different launcher as others in the thread have mentioned. And that would make it the best imo.
As far as banking apps and such i haven't had any major issues. Only some government apps that require chrome to log in.
So i downloaded chrome, logged in, and removed it again.
I still use google maps and it works flawlessly without login.
I don't use any social media apps (unless you count lemmy).
Edit: aæAlso in regards to adblocking they're on par.
I haven't had any more ads in apps or in browser with either of them.
Edit2: The appstore on /e/os is a bit funky and i personally am not a fan.
I can't seem to manually search for updates.
Theres google play store and regular fdroid repo and no way to add more, so you're limited if you e.g use custom fdroid repos.
You can't get a list of installed apps, so you have to go to settings for that.
You can't use in app purchases (but that's true for all degoogled appstores afaik).
You should be able to get paid apps, but you have to buy them in google play store and then log in to /e/os app store with that gmail to get it, but rumor is google might ban your mail for doing it.
On iodé it is possible to remove every app, even the preinstalled required apps like phone and files. I really miss that feature.
What's the appeal of eOS over LineageOS?
Easy install, OTA updates, you can buy a Fairphone preinstalled with it.
So mainly easier access I would say, while not having a downside.
Preinstalled is the biggest difference I would suppose. People like what they get.
Downside: Not LineageOS :)
It's based on LOS; you get all the features.
I think the question should be why choose eOS over normal Android. Because it is not fully Google made. Competition is good. Yes, I don't know how to switch Android ROM, so does many other as well.
I'm not very tech savvy when it comes to phones, so having privacy focused software pre installed is a huge selling point for me
Per their own releases, they includes October's AOSP security patches.
This is pretty good, but still behind GrapheneOS in terms of security.
(I did a quick search, so I could be wrong)
Edit: Oct patches were included on a release from 1 week ago. I have no clue what their history is
Everything is behind GrapheneOS in terms of security. It does a whole lot more than just being up-to-date.
Whether you need that degree of security depends on your threat model though.
I run e/OS on a FP5. I ran e/OS on a Essential PH-1 before and going back to a phone with Google installed just didn't sit right with me. I did not feel like I could trust the device even after trying to toggle as much of the creepy spying off. As if there's still someone probably looking over your shoulder because you configured something wrong.
It is not perfect, but it is easy to use and full-featured. All regular apps feel great and battery life is good. I still use specific Google services (such as the calendar for work) but no specific Google apps. I guess Maps is the biggest challenge now but alternatives are good enough to get around with.
You can run Android apps. Not sure about payed Android apps. I try to install FOSS apps through the integrated f-droid store if they're available there. Installing app store apps sometimes fails because Google blocked the installer. I could install everything so far when needed (including banking apps and specific apps for the vacuum cleaner and such). Sometimes the Android app store apps don't update for a while and I don't notice.
I don't use Murena's services but self-host Nextcloud. Based on the information they send I think they're doing a great job for their size.
I flashed the FP5 myself with a beta of e/OS when it was just out because the other phone was broken and (again) I did not feel right with the spying demon in my pocket with native Android. You could flash your device too.
It's comfortable on this side. If you have further specific questions, shoot.
That's interesting, thank you for the input! The mention of bank apps is really helpful, I didn't realize before that not having my bank app would be a complete deal breaker for me.
Its a great intro to a more privacy focused ROM than stock android - I got one for a friend who's never used any other custom ROM before and he loves it.
I've always had a bad feeling about them since I read a pretty damning critique years and years ago (I can't really recall what it was about now but I think it was privacy fuckups, devs not communicating very well and they included apps from rather shady sources from then internet that could potentially to not very tech-savy people installing malware through their official apps store).
That they somehow managed to fuck up their own cloud infrastructure recently (as others have hinted had) doesn't really make me hopefull that they changed much from back then. Mind you I now next to nothing about this incedent but if you have a service that potentially thousands of people rely on with their data you should have working backups and rollbacks in place.
(Personally I also just can't deal with the fucking branding, it just looks pretentious, unsearchable and weird.)
I would (and have) just always gone for Lineage and MicroG with F-Droid/Optanium for FOSS apps and Aurora for the few Google Play Store apps I need. Plus Netguard as a firewall.
Here's a very in-depth German review of a pretty well-respected security researcher on the not-so-stellar privacy aspects of that ROM:
I'm pretty that Lineage does not fare much better, though. If you're into privacy the only real option seems to be GrapheneOS which only runs on Pixel Devices 👌
Im petty sure you don't need to root a phone to install a custom ROM nowadays (unlocking bootloader, yes. And it is obviously more work installing a custom ROM than buying one that comes with it preinstalled).
That's good to know! And just unlocking the bootloader doesn't void the warranty on most phones, does it?
Mmmh, no idea about that, sorry ...
My wife recently got a murena Teracube and we have rather mixed feelings about it so far, worst problem is very poor mobile network connectivity. E.g. when leaving WiFi range, it doesn't autoconnect to mobile, or no connectivity after crossing the borders (I checked the bands, they are fine). But here I'm not sure if the problem is hard or software. Another annoying problem is that I can't get owntracks run properly. On my Fairphone 4 (FF OS, so still Google Brand) I never had those issues.
A non techy but privacy mindful friend bought a fairphone with /e/
She's happy with it
I might do the same one day when I don't want to tinker anymore
I just went with GrapheneOS on a Pixel... It's as close to "it just works" as you're going to get in my opinion on a device that respects your privacy. .
Been using /e/os on my OnePlus 6t for nearly 2 years now. I like it for the most part, with its built-in ad blocker, and online ecosystem that syncs to my devices. Recent outage that they are still going through, has alittle worrisome but nothing being a big deal
It's not as good as Graphene but it's better than stock, the downside is that it's still android...
I have never used /e/ but I do not have a positive impression of it. From what I can tell it's just LineageOS but with microG (with Google registration turned on by default) and some "app store" thing (which tells you what proprietary applications are "good"), tied to their cloud (it's okay because it's not Google you see) and with a proprietary map app with a "good privacy policy."
Privacy policies are not a substitute for free software licenses and any organization suggesting they are is not reputable in my opinion.
If it isn't divestos or grapheneos the privacy gains over stock are going to be minimal compared to the comparability issues you will face.
Simply not having google play services installed is a massive privacy win. Any custom rom (without google) will offer that. Divest and Graphene offer some extra security features.
The compatibility can be usable if you don't rely much on closed source apps or their notifications. If you do, you'll need either microg or full google play services.
This is just not true for a multitude of reasons.
The obvious being that most other custom ROMs are not actually degoogled (ie proprietary blobs, still communicating with google) and/or they try to do it in ways that provide no privacy benefit such as replacing google with MicroG which has the exact same issues (ie privelged access to your phone).
The majority of these custom ROMs break any semblence of their security model (rooting, not locking the bootloader etc) to bring these privacy measures, which makes them almost moot in and of itself.
Also purely focusing on removing yourself from Google (especially while ignoring all of AOSP, and to an extent Android in general, is Google centric) when there are tons of other large data gatherers (many of them with far less recognizable brands) that your probably ignoring is useless.
not actually degoogled
Aside from vendor firmware, LineageOS is mostly deblobbed by default afaik. The remaining bits that connect to google (by default) like AGPS or captive portal are significantly less information than full google play services.
try to do it in ways that provide no privacy benefit
Replacing google play services with microg might have the same security downsides as regular google play services (privileged access), however, MicroG is open source. It still connects to Google, but sends significantly less data, and you can see exactly what it sends.
Break any semblance of security model
Rooting is one example, but access to it is often left up to the user. Keeping the bootloader unlocked has some major security downsides, but they're entirely for when an attacker has physical access. The privacy downsides of an unlocked bootloader do exist, but they're hard to exploit even with physical access.
ingnoring all of AOSP is Google
Yes, this is something you are forced to ignore with any custom Android ROM. Graphene, Divest, Calyx, etc all suffer from the same issue. Sending data to Google and privacy is not the same as being independant from Google developed software.
purely focussing on Google
On an AOSP or LineageOS based rom without preinstalled bloat, this is almost entirely up to user choice. You can choose to only install FOSS apps without trackers, or use Aurora store and install proprietary apps. You can choose to block network access for apps with trackers, or isolate them to a work profile and kill them in the background. It isn't good to focus only on Google, but it's a good starting point to use a rom without standard google play services.
While I agree that a hardened and privacy focused rom is better for privacy than regular LineageOS, privacy is not black and white. MicroG sending significantly less data is better than full access google play services sending all data. Not sending data is better than MicroG. That doesn't mean every user is able to use an entirely degoogled rom. Each person should decide for themselves what they're okay with and what they absolutely require on their own device. When someone is trying to get some privacy back, MicroG is a great option "in the middle" where as little functionality as possible is lost while sending as little data as possible. Discouraging that someone takes steps to improve their privacy just because it isn't perfect is not good, as that often results in someone not taking any steps towards privacy.
On the compatibility, while MicroG has some issues with specific apps, it does generally work (from what I hear from others). Not having google play services (or MicroG) can work, but it requires missing out on some google services like notifications for proprietary apps. For me personally, that's not a big issue, as I only use FOSS apps.
Tldr after realizing your a lineage os stan
its always lineageos users that can't handle the fact their OS isnt very private.
Here is some fun reading for you
"LineageOS stan"?? The same arguments go for any custom Android rom that doesn't ship with Google Play Services or MicroG.
"It's always LineageOS users"
FYI, Since I personally prefer absolutely zero connections I didn't approve of, I'm using a privacy-focused rom. I'm not even on LineageOS.
I love the complaining about privacy, after which you immediately share a google translate link. Was it that hard to find an English source stating LineageOS connects to Google?
Anyway, this doesn't dispute any of my arguments. LineageOS connecting to Google by default does not mean it sends the same amount of data as a stock rom with Google Play Services. A user shouldn't be discouraged in taking steps to further their privacy because it's "not good enough".
I think you're confusing privacy and security. Some of us aren't really worried about the NSA hacking our phones. We would just like for it to not constantly be selling out every minute detail of our personal information to a mega-corporation. Sure, you still have to pay attention to what apps you install and all of that, but a de-googled android phone is still a massive upgrade in terms of privacy even if it isn't super secure, as long as you aren't being individually targeted for some reason.
Greatest case for Graphene. Yes I find the need for a Pixel hilarious but it works soooo