this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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    [–] umbraroze@lemmy.world 16 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

    Well, systemd developers made one of the classic blunders a software developer can do: make a program that has to deal with time and dates. Every time I have to deal with timestamps I'm like "oh shit, here we go again".

    Anyway, as I understood it the reason this is in systemd is because they wanted to replace cron, and it's fine by me because cron has it's own brain-hurt. (The cron syntax is something that always makes me squint real hard for a while.)

    [–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

    I'm sorry but Cron is really easy, of all systems.

    Try using systemd with an ssh server that you want to have running on a non standard port. On non systemd it's a 15 second ordeal while on systemd I don't even know where to start, I pushed it out of my memories. It's something something create files here, restart demons there, removing other files, it is WAY WAY over complicated

    [–] offspec@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago

    What do you mean? You literally just change the /etc/sshd config to point at a different port do you not?

    [–] umbraroze@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

    Well cron is "really easy" as long as your requirements are really easy too.

    Run a task at specific hour or minute or weekday or whatever? Easy peasy.

    Run a task at complex intervals? What the fuck is this syntax. How do I get it right even. Guess I'll come back next week and see if it ran correctly.

    Actually have to look at the calendar to schedule this stuff? Oh lawd here come the hacks, they're so wide, they're coming

    Run a task at, say, granularity of seconds? Of course it's not supported, who would ever need that, if you really need that just do an evil janky shellscript hack

    [–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 1 points 17 hours ago

    Yeah and they actually added some usability in the form of that utility helping you debug what you're doing. Pretty nice!

    This is basically just a way nicer, more flexible cron syntax being dressed up as something ridiculous. There are legitimate reasons for wanting something like this, like running some sort of resource heavy disk optimization the first Friday evening of every month or something.

    [–] frezik@midwest.social 29 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    This plays some kind of role in the debate of systemd being good or not. I'm not sure if goes in the good column or the bad column, but I know it goes into a column.

    [–] barsquid@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    I am typically in the group saying "systemd is overlarge with too many responsibilities" but this capability makes perfect sense for its job running services. Probably the good column.

    [–] okwhateverdude@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    This kinda functionality is surprisingly apropos to a problem I have a work, I realize. And yet, I have k8s. More and more I am appreciating the niche systemd can play with pets instead of cattle and wished corps weren't jumping to managed k8s and all of that complexity it entails immediately.

    [–] kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 12 hours ago

    You can run systemd (or cron) inside a pod for scheduling and call the kubernetes API from there to run jobs and stuff. Not sure if this helps you, but it can be easy to overlook.

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    [–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 83 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    systemd is a great operating system, it just lacks a decent text editor.

    [–] fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de 35 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    Good thing it's editor agnostic so everybody can do the right thing in the end and choose nano

    [–] ricdeh@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (2 children)
    [–] John@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 day ago (3 children)
    [–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    ed is the standard text editor.

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    [–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 12 points 1 day ago

    alias systemd-texted=micro

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    [–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 1 points 21 hours ago

    Just write your own initialization system in bash. It is more reliable and less bloated.

    Finally we can put all the controversy around systemd to rest.

    [–] FreshLight@sh.itjust.works 231 points 2 days ago (8 children)

    Oh fuck. I'll use this from now on. Except for if I won't use it next week. Then I'll forget about it because my memory is a damn sieve.

    [–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 120 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Just take the next step and make a text file you dump all these commands into and then forget about in a week. When you randomly stumble across it years from now you’ll be able to say “wow, I could have used this 10 months ago if I remembered it existed!”

    [–] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 53 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I make a separate text file per command so I can search them!

    Which I dont.

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    [–] mlg@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    Systemd ignored my calendar override for the builtin raid scanner, so every week my server would chug to a halt to scan the entire array.

    In true systemd fashion, the documentation could not explain this behavior, so I had to make a full copy override instead of a merge override because reasons.

    [–] snowfalldreamland@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

    Did setting OnCalendar to the empty string not work? https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/479745

    [–] lazynooblet@lazysoci.al 45 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    In the UK, if Christmas or New Year falls on a weekend, a seperate equivalent holiday is made during the week to compensate.

    [–] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Wait, do other countries not do this? So if a public holiday falls on a Saturday it doesn't get pushed to Monday?

    [–] superkret@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

    Germany doesn't do this, but the minimum, when all holidays fall on the worst possible days, is more than the number of holidays in the UK.

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    [–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    Don't do that in Norway either - just bad luck if the holidays happen to land on a weekend. On the other hand, we have five weeks of paid vacation, and holidays are not counted into those, I'm not sure how that's done in other countries?

    [–] John@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    but the UK has the fewest public holidays in Europe. In Germany we have 9-13 but don't get a day off if a public holiday is on a weekend. And we have a minimum of 20/24 days of holiday on top

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    [–] _____@lemm.ee 115 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    me: systemd is not that bloated

    systemd:

    [–] exu@feditown.com 48 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    You need a calendar and time handling anyways for logging purposes and to set timers correctly. It's likely not that much extra work exposing that functionality.

    [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 14 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    No, UNIX philosophy demands that every single one of those things is one or more separate things and that half of them are poorly or not at all maintained. Just like God intended.

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    [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
    $ systemd-analyze calendar tomorrow
    Failed to parse calendar specification 'tomorrow': Invalid argument
    Hint: this expression is a valid timestamp. Use 'systemd-analyze timestamp "tomorrow"' instead?
    $ systemd-analyze timestamp tuesday
    Failed to parse "tuesday": Invalid argument
    Hint: this expression is a valid calendar specification. Use 'systemd-analyze calendar "tuesday"' instead?
    

    ಠ_ಠ

    $ for day in Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun; do TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar "$day 02-29"|tail -2; done
        Next elapse: Mon 2044-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 19 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Tue 2028-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 3 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Wed 2040-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 15 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Thu 2052-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 27 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Fri 2036-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 11 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Sat 2048-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 23 years 4 months left
        Next elapse: Sun 2032-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 7 years 4 months left
    

    still image from "Zach Galifianakis Math" gif, with Zach looking contemplative with math notation floating in front of his face

    (It checks out.)

    Surprisingly its calendar specification parser actually allows for 31 days in every month:

    $ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-29' && echo OK || echo not OK
      Original form: 02-29
    Normalized form: *-02-29 00:00:00
        Next elapse: Tue 2028-02-29 00:00:00 UTC
           From now: 3 years 4 months left
    OK
    $ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-30' && echo OK || echo not OK
      Original form: 02-30
    Normalized form: *-02-30 00:00:00
        Next elapse: never           
    OK
    $ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-31' && echo OK || echo not OK
      Original form: 02-31
    Normalized form: *-02-31 00:00:00
        Next elapse: never           
    OK
    $ TZ=UTC systemd-analyze calendar '02-32' && echo OK || echo not OK
    Failed to parse calendar specification '02-32': Invalid argument
    not OK
    
    [–] mogoh@lemmy.ml 96 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    Usually such things have a simple explanation. systemd does a lot with time and date, for example scheduling tasks. It's quite obvious that it has this capabilities, when you think about it.

    [–] m4m4m4m4@lemmy.world 46 points 2 days ago (8 children)

    Usually such things have a simple explanation. systemd does a lot ~~with time and date, for example scheduling tasks. It's quite obvious that it has this capabilities, when you think about it.~~

    FTFY

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    [–] PanArab@lemm.ee 48 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

    systemd is the future, and the future has been here for over a decade and yet old Unix and BSD purists still cry about it

    I have one simple thing to say to the downvoters: I am not using a minicomputer from 1970, why should I be bound by the limits set then?

    [–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 39 points 2 days ago

    Yeah, I'm also one of these people silently enjoying systemd and wayland. Every now and then there's fuzz on one of these. I shrug, and move on still enjoying both of them.

    [–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 4 points 1 day ago

    They are also still complaining about PulseAudio, despite Pipewire having mostly replaced it, while spending hours fiddling with ALSA to use their headphones.

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    [–] solidgrue@lemmy.world 60 points 2 days ago

    Thanks! I hate this. 🖤

    [–] RV5@kbin.melroy.org 5 points 1 day ago

    Ahh, you made my day!

    [–] mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 day ago

    Damn and does it work as an init too? xD.

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