this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 307 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Universal health care? I don't want government making my health care decisions! We have for-profit companies for that.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 197 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Death panels?

Believe it or not, that's also Frank.

[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 35 points 1 week ago

Fun fact, he was named after the health insurance industry’s inspiration, 1789 France.

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Frank is a busy man. Denying medical treatments, sitting on death panels. Is there nothing Frank can do?

Oh yeah, Frank can't approve medical treatment.

[–] kokesh@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Don't be so sure it would be different. I collapsed, nearly drove off the road 3 times in one week and decided that it was enough and went to the doctor. He sent me home, wrote me in as extreme burnout (completely true, I had to sleep at work for every coffee break to make it through the day and 30 mins before driving home to actually make it). So I thought Great, I will rest for a few months and go back to work after that! Nope. The state heath insurance office said Our specialists decided, that you are perfectly fine. No sick pay. Get back to operating the industrial concrete blender. The health center doctors signed a letter, but no, I was fucked. So on top of this I got extreme financial stress. We got out of this crap by renting our cabin and starting going full into an outdoor adventure business. What a great time. Where was this? In Sweden in January 2019.

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Sounds like a flaw in the system. I fail to see how health insurance should ever be involved between patient and doctor in a "universal" health care system. Sure doesn't happen where I live.

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[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 221 points 1 week ago (4 children)

i have a friend who's a transplant patient and has been taking the same meds for over 10 years post transplant-- every year it's a furious battle with insurance who, every year, decides the meds are no longer "medically necessary" and drops coverage for it. fucking helloooo these are anti-rejection pills, the textbook definition of "medically necessary."

it's not that insurance companies are stupid, it's that they're saving money on people dying when those people don't get what they needed to live.

insurance is the biggest fucking scam of all time

[–] voxthefox@lemmy.world 86 points 1 week ago

The insurance system does not work in the medical field, it would never work because insurance is for managing risks that are unknown, like a house flooding or your car getting hit in an intersection.

In medical "insurance" it is often dealing with known issues, and the insurance system is just not set up to deal with preventative care, annual check ups, mammograms, blood tests, or pre-existing conditions. It would be like trying to use car insurance to pay for an oil change, which is just as ridiculous as it sounds in your head.

That's exactly why the term "insurance" should be used when discussing a single payer system, it's not really insurance, it should be a collective action group that works together with the medical community to find a middle ground where hospitals can still exist and pay wages to their staff, the people can get the medical care they need without getting thrown into poverty for daring to get sick, and the government benefits from having a healthier population as a whole.

Too bad theres way too much money in the short term in keeping this all private, and having a sicker population, so we have decades of insurance company propaganda to work against, and a huge population of people that don't understand that by doing single payer health care your taxes would go up, but you also wouldn't be paying out the nose for medical insurance & medical care (because they don't cover anything). Also think of a world where your health care isn't beholden to your employment, all the different choices you'd make in your life.

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[–] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 189 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Frank didn't even look at it. He just fed your claim into their computer and it spat out a rejection.

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 104 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Bold to assume he bothered to feed it to a computer when you can just reject without having to do that. Feeding something to a computer takes time, and time is money y'know.

[–] Ferris@infosec.pub 56 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Frank bought a self-inking stamp that says "REJECTED" and saw a 70% productivity increase.

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[–] TommySalami@lemmy.world 136 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I work for a neurologist practice, and the amount I have to argue with insurance (and inevitably have to get the neurologist on the phone to directly request something for many) is insane. A good chunk of my job isn't providing care, but arguing with insurance that the care is necessary. These companies are actively delaying patient care, and try to blame the physician whenever possible.

Wildly infuriating, especially when the denials are worded along the lines of "we reviewed this, and don't consider it medically necessary". Motherfucker, a doctor said it was necessary and listed the clinical reasons why this test or procedure would be beneficial. Nothing has radicalized me for universal healthcare more than working in healthcare.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 40 points 1 week ago (4 children)

How is that even legal? How is someone who hasn’t examined the patient and isn’t their physician allowed to make treatment decisions? If they even have the necessary qualifications.

[–] skulblaka@sh.itjust.works 40 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because of money!

Every time you see something that feels illegal but isn't, or that makes no sense in general, look for the money trail. There's always one, and it always leads to the explanation.

In this case, insurance companies have made such an absolute ass ton of money by killing off their customers that they have become a political entity. They now use their deep pockets to lobby politicians to keep their scam legal.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

People love to shit on the VA, because they're the largest American healthcare provider in the country so there's a lot of bad stories

But my last MRI went like this:

Doctor: you need an MRI, let me check if it's open. (Less than a minute on laptop). Ok, go down to room ____ and they can get you in now.

There's a huge up front cost for that machine, so for profit hospitals went everyone to use it to make the money back, and insurance wants no one to use it so they don't have to pay.

Take insurance out of the picture, take the hospital trying to make money out of the picture. And it's really that easy. No one pushes for unnecessary tests, no one tries to prevent necessary tests. And there's a huge push towards preventive medicine, because it's cheaper to catch shit early.

We already pay more than what it would cost, it's just the healthcare industry donates to both parties, so as long as both standards are "at least they're not the other team" shits never going to get fixed.

If we hold higher standards than that, it won't take many election cycles to get change to actually happen

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[–] pancakes@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 week ago (3 children)

On the flip side, I can't imagine being the person arguing for the insurance companies makes them a better or happy person in the long term. Being a devil's henchman, over time it must destroy important parts of them like empathy, trust in people, and their basic human decency. Virtues that are needed now more than ever in society.

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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 80 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Had my buddy over who brought over his incredibly questionable 30yo brother who shared some real incel levels of talk. He used my bathroom and asked if I wore tampons since a pack was visible. Like bro, I have a wife and a daughter.

Anyways, that guy works in health insurance!

I don't know how much decisions he can actually make. But that dude has a middle-school level education about sex ed and struggled to explain what a period is. And he is one of the barriers to approving/rejecting your health care.

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 23 points 1 week ago

“You want me to whip out my dick and slap you with it since that was the stupidest question I’ve heard?”

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You should see what @pancakes@sh.itjust.works wrote in this very thread. You basically just answered their question about what this industry must do to a person's ability to empathize and be a decent person to others. Or in this case, maybe lack thereof is a job requirement?

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 67 points 1 week ago (14 children)

So here is a question:

A medical professional examined the person IN PERSON and has a requirement.

In comes the insurance to tell you your doctor is wrong and that you're perfectly fine, your doctor is basically lying to you.

Question: how the fuck did any of this ever become legal?

[–] woodenskewer@lemmy.world 47 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Question: how the fuck did any of this ever become legal?

I would guess lobbying.

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[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Sometimes the Frank is an AI that is wrong 90% of the time. That's fine, because reasons.

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[–] sevan@lemmy.ca 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Also, there's this common "feature":

Dr: "You need this procedure."

Me: "How much will it cost me?"

Office Manager: "I won't know until I bill your insurance and find out if it is covered."

Me: "What is the cash price I would pay you if it isn't covered by insurance."

Office Manager: "I have no idea."

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[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 45 points 1 week ago

Prior authorization should 100% be outlawed. It's either insurance adjusters practicing medicine without a license, or insurance doctors making diagnoses without examining a patient, both of which are unethical or illegal.

Though I think the real solution is a system where every time a prior authorization denial is overruled by the DOO or a court, the insurance company has to pay punitive damages of at least $200,000 to the patient.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 44 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Last time my doctor had to bill my insurance he said he would just run it immediately, because apparently "routine denial" is a thing where they just automatically deny it because if you really need it the doctor will then have his office try again with more justifications. He hated this a lot, because it basically meant he had to just assume first denial for no real reason and then his staff had to take the time to almost always go back and resubmit. He said sometimes he would submit it with the info, it would be denied, and then he would resubmit it two more times and suddenly it would be approved.

Like seriously, what the fuck. But only does that hold up necessary care, it also makes doctors do more bureaucratic work and hire more staff, which, of course, makes medicine more expensive. Brilliant.

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[–] Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 44 points 1 week ago

The cruelty of the US American for-profit health system is what should be uniting all US Americans in protest, riot, and violent overthrow of the current system.

[–] celsiustimeline@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I love how the insurance company, the party that has no medical expertise whatsoever, gets to unilaterally decide how much that MRI will cost you today.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The sad thing is they do hire some licensed healthcare professionals to fall back on when appealed. They just look for the least compassionate MDs to rubber stamp denials.

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[–] cordlessmodem@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago

The private for profit health insurance industry - because what could make number go up better than a (LEGALLY MANDATED) do nothing middle man who's only purpose is to take your money and ensure as little as possible is spent on healthcare sitting between you and not dying?

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

American health insurance in a nutshell: https://youtu.be/llx-SaGq4Fs?si=eDIny0fqcGYFkB2a

And before non-Americans ask, yes, that's actually how it is. The humor in this video isn't from exaggeration, the comedy derives from the unexpectedly clear way the absurdity of the system is explained.

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[–] Death@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago (13 children)

And when the patient turned out to be fine after the scan, the insurance company will try to blame that the doctors are lying so that the insurance company has to pay the hospital more It's like they thought that the doctors must be able to see through the patients' body as if they forgot that the reason for these equipments to exist in the first place is that because the doctors can't really be 100% sure about what's actual situation inside human body

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[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They hire doctors who can't handle being practicing doctors to prop up their delusions. I've only had one on the line in a dispute and he acted quite offended when I asked for his license to prove he was a real doctor. Turns out he was barely a doctor at all. He decided instead of practicing medicine and killing people he would work for a insurance company and kill them that way.

[–] ericbomb@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So like did he complete his residency then head straight for insurance field?

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

From what I remember he was so bad he had trouble being employed. I looked him up and gathered information for my lawyer.

[–] ericbomb@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Wild. With how gnarly residency is you'd THINK most of them would be ground out, but guess some folks just see those dollar bills working as a corporate doctor.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I had a friend who needed a CT head, chest and abdomen. The insurance company decided she could have the head and abdomen, but not the chest, and couldn't really explain why when asked. American health care is a joke.

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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (3 children)

My insurance that I pay a ridiculous sum of money for has started doing this neat new thing. When the doctor orders imaging, they mark it as “requested more information but never received any”, and reject the claim. They don’t actually request any additional information, and they ignore me when I contest their decision. So glad that I pay like $400 per month for this coverage.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Yes, I think that's exactly what my doctor was trying to describe. He said if they're at that point, they basically have to guess what information they're looking for other than "I'm a qualified physician that has run diagnostic tests and determined this is the best course of treatment. Here are those tests and why it indicates X and therefore requires Y."

I've had to do unnecessary labs to prove an ailment wasn't something else that some person hundreds or thousands of miles away thought it might be.

If you think you hate insurance companies, find an honest doctor and ask them what they think of the US Healthcare system and health insurance. I've never seen a doctor so worked up and angry than when discussing the current medical system.

Edit: this guy is fun to watch on this topic: https://youtu.be/s33AVskz3T8?si=Qqx2nAJjguMOxnNL

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[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 week ago

Maybe if you can't afford to pay premiums that allow you to have an IRM, just ~~don't indulge in expensive illnesses~~ die already.

[–] knobbysideup@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago

This shit really needs to end.

[–] secretfoxtail@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 week ago

tl;dr: It doesn't.

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