“Personal obligation.” Should be the only response anybody gives him going forward.
this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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Bad case of anal glaucoma. I just can't see my ass going in to work today.
A+, just got to figure out how to work this into conversation without getting HR involved now.
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Exactly. I'm a manager and literally never ask the reason unless it's longer than a week. They like to tell me anyway even though I've told them I don't care.
Maybe they just really feel like they can open up to you, Dicksinabag.
I feel like I could open up to Discksinabag pretty easily
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I can't imagine having a manager like in this post. I had to get a few hours coverage for my on call shift to pick my partner up from the hospital for an outpatient surgery. Manager didn't ask why I needed coverage but it just happened to come up. They immediately offered to get my entire shift moved without me even asking.
Seriously don't understand managers like this. Also a manager, qnd I'll even find the coverage if someone needs a day off. I know how nerve wracking it is as an employee calling around asking someone to cover your shift, its a lot easier for me to send a mass text. Incidentally, the staff seem much more willing to pick up shifts this way.
Could go into great detail about significant health issues, becoming more and more emotional as you go on, and tearfully asking "why would you make me talk about this? I wanted to keep this private! I haven't even told my family yet!".
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It’s legal but insane. Your wife should start looking for a new job.
I'm not sure it would be legal if they were forced to reveal medical information.
Christ are we going to be having "hippa"(sic) arguments again?
You can refuse to answer - I sure would. Or just say you have an appointment. Being asked is not illegal.
Then I assume the jerk will just deny your request.
Right, but if you're request for denied for something medically necessary unless you revealed it, you went anyway (because it's necessary), and then you got fired... That feels like it shouldn't be legal (obviously that doesn't mean that it isn't).
It's up to you to reveal it or not. It's not a "request" if it can't be denied.
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That would be a violation, but it is perfectly m legal to ask if someone is going on generic “sick” or “medical” time off or leave. Every company I’ve ever worked for has had be declare my PTO as sick leave or discretionary time off. And the latter is what it means, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.
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Correct, non sick leave is usually considered discretionary time off; meaning, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.
That said, this manager sounds like a nut job. It’s legal to be a hard ass, but people don’t have to remain working for you.
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I would decline to answer, and if pressed, say something vague, such as, "a medical procedure". That should be enough for most people, but if it they keep pressing, I would come up with something embarrassing, such as, "I need the time off to get my anal prolapse taken care of." Then be upset that you had to disclose private medical information and ask to speak to HR.
Despite the fact that, as another user pointed out, restaurants rarely have an HR department, it is important to remember that HR exists solely to protect the company. They are not there to advocate for your rights as an employee. If you think your rights have been violated at work, you should contact your state's labor department (assuming you are US based). My state even has a nice website that outlines your rights as an employee and a form you can submit if your rights have been violated.
100% this. A former coworker was fired a month ago because he filed an HR complaint about his boss, because the boss was being an asshole to him (according to co worker).
This is the same boss who joked about beating his wife and kicking his dog in a meeting, so I'm fairly certain it's true.
HR is NEVER your friend.
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That's exactly the point. HR is there to protect the company from you suing them for forcing you to provide personal medical information that you weren't comfortable sharing.
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I don’t know if you were addressing the specific case mentioned, but if someone has a softball game they want to go to, and they say they have a medical procedure to take care of, that could easily be grounds for termination.
Best answer I can think of is to unionize and negotiate a CA that includes shift trade rights. Short term, I don’t think there’s much you can do if the company wants to be a dick.
Mental health is a medical issue. Ergo any vacation is medical.
Points for creative thinking, but I would prefer not to get fired and have to seek redress through the courts.
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In my experience most restaurants dont even have HR lmao. My mileage obviously varies but I have worked a few food industry jobs, and exactly 0 had any HR person other than the managers and assistant managers themselves
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Always give your boss as little information as possible. They aren't entitled to it and are much more likely to use it against you.
I say that as a manager. It's just good practice. If the manager doesn't know exactly why you're taking the day off, they can't be held accountable for it either.
As a manager, I don't give a flying fuck why my team wants to take time off. Wanna sit on your ass and play video games for a week straight, cool all good by me : just let me know the dates, check their PTO balance, and ensure it doesn't conflict with key deliverables and if so either work out a plan for coverage or suggest they look for a different time to take off if possible
Yeah, I don't know what Colorado's laws are on this in general, but even if it's technically legal it seems like a huge risk that someone is going to plausibly allege that given the specific facts denying them time off was race/religion/family status/... discrimination. It might be legal (don't know), but it's a stupid policy for a number of reasons.
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I have a co-worker who says her reason for the time off request is always gynecology related. Bosses never ask questions.
I need a leave for my pap exam.
Denied.
Why?
You're a man.
Gender discrimination reported to corporate headquarters.
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One way you might resolve this is to get everybody talking about it without the boss there. I bet nobody likes the policy. Maybe everyone would agree to not give a reason, or to give the same reason that is an obvious lie?
Maybe if all the employees presented a united front. Like a sort of joint group of just the employees. Together in a union of sorts.
Maybe individually they do not have a lot of power, but together could be strong?
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Everyone should always say 'its because I'm on my period.' Men and post menopausal women too. It could be great, if the first few times the younger women use the line it works. Then whenever someone who doesn't have menses uses it, everyone unites together and puts a little bit of their labor to helping a coworker. It'd be nice if there was a name for something like that.
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"Personal reasons". If they continue to pry just say it's extemely personal and hopefully they'll back off.
In Ontario that's perfectly legal. It's also legal for you to decline to answer that question.I worked in kitchens for about 15 years and came across that problem at about 1/3 of the places I worked. Not super uncommon, the industry is filled with flakes.
Keep in mind in most jurisdictions Restaurants get special labour rules.
"special labour rules"
Seems every industry has their own... I work in IT and we get shafted as well
It's like a "special military operations", in the workplace!
I think I would simply comply, maliciously.
What's my reason? I'm going on a journey in alignment with my religion. Try telling me I can't follow my religious beliefs on the record.
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I don't live in the US, so I cannot comment on the legality of this. However, I will advise an informal policy of malicious compliance. If the manager asks why someone needs to take a day off, that someone should reply with incredibly graphic medical issues, whether real or fake. Think 'I'm shitting blood and I need to see a doctor,' or something like that. Keep it up for a few months and see how management responds.
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Whats it say in the employee handbook regarding time off?
It’s not the manager’s job to decide if someone’s personal obligations are necessary or not. It’s their job to assure there is coverage and the work is complete.
If the employee is abusing the shift-change timeoff policy, that is a different story.
If the manager is the owner, it may be a good idea for your wife to freshen her resume.
Of course it's legal. Why wouldn't it be?
She should approach it by either following the stupid rules or finding a new job
I second others advice by saying as little as possible. "Family issues" "personal obligations" "health problem"
No use being honest with a boss that isn't understanding
Of course it’s legal. Why wouldn’t it be?
I'm assuming you're USian?
The question almost anywhere else in the wealthy world is why would it be legal? The manager does not need to know therefore the manager has no right to ask.
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What bullshit. I’d make something up every time.
Whether their request is legal or not, my personal life isn’t my employer’s business, and certainly doesn’t revolve around their “approval”.
A lot of incorrect answers here as to the legality - this is not a blanket 100% definitely legal situation. In the US, the boss can certainly ask why. But, if he denies leave for something that is discriminatory then that is an adverse employment action under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act if they employ at least 15 employees.
For instance, if he doesn't allow leave to someone to observe a religious holiday, but allows others to go on leave under similar circumstances, that could be illegal.
A lot of things could be discriminatory. Its stupid of him to ask for specifics beyond medical vs personal.
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You shouldn't even "find someone to cover your shift". That's the manager's job. If the manager is not the owner then a call to corporate is necessary. If they're the owner then fuck this place.
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The answer is going to depend on Country, State (if in the US) and locality. For a US based answer, you can contact he US Department of Labor and ask them for a real answer (certainly better than you'd get asking people on the internet). You can also contact the Department of Labor for whatever State the work is performed in.
At a guess, it's probably legal under certain circumstances. Knowing most small businesses, the policy is probably not that nuanced.
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