this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024

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292

Vance Describes Plan to End Ukraine War That Sounds a Lot Like Putin’s (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 5 days ago by FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/news@lemmy.world

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[–] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 78 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

“It doesn’t join NATO, it doesn’t join some of these sort of allied institutions,” Mr. Vance said. “I think that’s ultimately what this looks like.”

Elbridge Colby, one of Trumps simps from the Pentagon had this to add:

“Senator Vance is being realistic and putting out forthrightly a realistic basis for ending the conflict,” he said, “while other people are engaged in a kind of irresponsible fantasy.”

Imagine being asked to give up a significant piece of your nations territory, while being refused any security guarantees in the future. This is after your children have been raped and stolen and your land destroyed. This is what peace looks like? Fuck off both of you. If you let nations like Russia to steal land and get away with it, they won’t stop. Of course, we know Trump and Vance are puppets of Putin so no real surprises here. After all, we know how much dictators love trump.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 31 points 5 days ago

While being attacked by a nation who promised to defend you from attacks if you gave up your nukes.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 22 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Elbridge Colby, one of Trumps simps from the Pentagon

I can't stand that smug nepo baby. He's a dollar-store Tucker Carlson whose self-confidence is completely unwarranted by his competence.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 11 points 5 days ago

dollar-store Tucker Carlson

So dollar store clearance rack.

[–] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

[–] wjrii@lemmy.world 59 points 5 days ago (1 children)

“figure out what a peaceful settlement looks like,”

Per the article, followed immediately by ceding the currently occupied parts of Ukraine to Russia and Ukraine promising never to join NATO or "related" organizations. Ukraine gets a "demilitarized" zone to do what, of course, THE INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDER was supposed to do.

Fucking hell. We wouldn't ask Iran for terms like that, but a maturing democracy that is allied with us... it's fine. After all, the west did shitty things like "offering a more appealing value proposition." Trump is not even good at being a hegemonic power.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 16 points 5 days ago (2 children)

His plan is "give Putin everything he wants." Real great negotiator there. /s

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 1 points 3 days ago

No, Putin would need to say a few nice things about the size of Trumps crowds, so the US would at least get some value out of the deal.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago

That's what he did (and more) for the Taliban.

[–] 2pt_perversion@lemmy.world 46 points 5 days ago

We will end the war in Ukraine by giving Russia everything they want...

Kamala Harris said in the debate, "I believe the reason Donald Trump says this war would be over in 24 hours is because he would just give it up." Turns out she's 100% correct.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 39 points 5 days ago

Of course. Putin's shills always repeat after Putin.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 days ago

Putin bought and paid shills say what?

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 30 points 5 days ago

Let’s couch that plan, JD. It’s no good

[–] Blackout@fedia.io 28 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Whatever makes sense™ - Vancebot, a division of Peter Thiel's scrotum.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

"How long have you been in Ukraine? Ok."

[–] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Purely strategically, the best bet is for NATO to fund and lend/lease materiel to Ukraine sufficient to make the Russian effort protracted and expensive. Maybe Ukraine can solidify some territorial gains in Russian oblasts enough to have bargaining chips. From there it is just a game of finding acceptable off-ramps. Maybe a treaty gets signed that trades territory back to something like the "original" borders circa the beginning to the current conflict.

Russia clearly doesn't care about personnel losses (and historically never has). But maybe if it drags on, the conflict will become economically and politically costly enough that Putin is looking for offramps.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

Putin doesn't give a shit about personnel losses but Russia very much does, even if it doesn't know it yet. So many young men have been erased from the economy, either by them fleeing the country or being killed, it will affect Russian economy negatively for decades

[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 2 points 3 days ago

I have to cynically agree - worse, Ukraine must cynically agree to it as well for survival. NATO has kept the war bracketed to keep it so expensive russia will eventually collapse, but not expensive enough that it would be evident to russia and they’d pull back. This is a horrible price in ukranian and russian lives, but they got putin to pay it to break russia.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 26 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I think they already figured it out. Russia leaves Ukraine.

[–] almar_quigley@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

Maybe even gives Ukraine some of Russia too. And I’m not referring to crimea.

[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 days ago

I think that Ukrainians figured out what republican plan is too, in advance, and that's why they took a piece of Kursk - to derail this horseshit

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 17 points 5 days ago

Not a big surprise the vice Putin fluffer is on the side of Russia not leaving Ukraine under a peace treaty and Ukraine promising not to protect itself. All after Russia violated treaties like the Budapest memorandum uncountable times attacking Ukraine. Meanwhile Putin fluffer Sr won't publicly state a position because he's obviously on Russia's side, they bankrolled his businesses when NYC banks told him to fuck off.

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Gee, I wonder why? What an unexpected Coincidence!

[–] ohellidk@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago

It's like people are just starting to figure it out!

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 5 days ago

He probably listened to at least one of the streamers that were bankrolled by Russia, so this is unsurprising.

[+] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net -25 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Fuck it I'll take the down votes, he's right. Ukraine is losing this war and stand no chance of winning back there lost territory, barring western countries putting troops on the ground. The longer the war goes on, the more territory the Russians gain and the more Ukraine's manpower gets drained. The only people who stand to benefit from the war continuing is the Russians and western defense contractors.

Obviously fuck Russia for starting this needless war but you have to understand when to cut your losses and stop pouring money and lives into a losing quagmire.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah, the Russians are winning at the rate of 1000 dead or injured Russians per day and are having trouble press-ganging more young Russian men to be thrown into the meatgrinder. Their own manufacturing capability can't keep their troops supplied, their losses of artillery and tanks exceed their ability to replenish them, and they're buying ammunition and light armaments from Iran and China with money they don't have.

And their three-day war is well into year 3.

If Russia is rewarded for its aggression, they are not going to stop with Ukraine. You're not getting peace by appeasing them, you're getting a guarantee of more war, more massive civilian casualties, more refugees, increasingly close to currently secure Western countries. Russia will not stop until it is forced to stop.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 days ago

Not only that. But Ukraine managed to capture in a month the same amount of land Russia has captured in a year (via Kursk)

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There is a point to think about though …. I’m all for supplying Ukraine with as much help as they want, both now and rebuilding, but it’s their country getting destroyed, their people getting maimed and killed. And they don’t have an endless supply. I don’t know a way out of the current mess, but it can’t just continue like this

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Appeasement. This would only invite more russian fuckery. It’s a fucking stupid plan.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yep. See Crimea.