this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2024

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An economic lesson... (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 week ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/antiwork@lemmy.ml

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[–] ampersandcastles@lemmy.ml 22 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

You can't gatekeep basic necessities that people need to live and then call the same people free.

It's simply not true. We're slaves to capital and to those that control it.

Communism is the only way humanity survives.

[–] szczuroarturo@programming.dev 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I mean they are correct. You should try to save up enough money to be able to live 2 ( or even 3 ) months without salary. Regardless of your political opinion on how a system we live in should be you should try to do that just for your own benefit and safety sake.

Besides one statment dosent exclude the other. Once again regardless of your opinions abut the system we live in pepole should have basic financial literacy to know that they should save up some money and not use credit cards as much as possible and other basic stuff ( you would be suprised how many pepole have no idea how it works or why you should save money instead of treating credit cards with horrendus intrest rates as you emergency fund )

[–] kayazere@feddit.nl 1 points 2 days ago

The predatory credit cards in the US should be not legal. They are exploiting people who don’t have so called “financial literacy” and encourage wasteful spending.

In Europe the US style credit cards don’t really exist and people just have debit cards. Also there is a social safety net, so people don’t have to rely on keeping money in the bank for when they become unemployed.

[–] Ifera@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Issue is, salaries are not enough, some credit cards give great benefits and cashbacks, and sadly the credit system is being exported to other countries, it is no longer an US only problem.

First time I tried to get a mortgage, I got rejected by multiple banks due to my "inexistent credit footprint", which was just the local flavor of a credit score. The banks even offered to give me credit cards, encouraging me to use them and NOT pay them off to prove I had a good payer behavior. Got lucky and found a credit union who didn't ask for any of that but had higher interest rates, so lose-lose situation.

[–] szczuroarturo@programming.dev 0 points 4 days ago

Just save up more money. If i remember correctly saving 20% was always standard where i live. Also there is no way bank would wilffuly advise you to not pay off your credit card. But yeach mortages suck. Actually cost of homes suck. Ina country where i live developers apparently have something like 30 to 40% profit margins which is crazy.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I mean.

I guess I could sell my car and commute entirely by ebike 30 miles a day. I'd technically make it eight weeks if I did that. Wouldn't even lose my trailer! Might even be able to eat!

[–] CyberMonkey404@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago (3 children)

commute entirely by ebike 30 miles a day.

Is that at all feasible?

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Like, kind of? That's both ways, so 15 miles one way means I could use a decent level of pedal assist. Regulations mean my ebike can't go faster than 25mph, but as long as I'm not on the highway that's fine.

Also, I'd be taking mostly farm-to-market routes. Lots of 35mph roads, mostly gravel (fortunately I have mountain bike tires and shock absorbers so gravel isn't really that bad). I've done this a few times, but doing it every day... forever because I sold my car would be seriously challenging. Especially in bad weather! I'm in Iowa, it snows tons out here!

[–] CyberMonkey404@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

Ah, see, turns out we are in similar situations, including climate wise. Hence the original question

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I know a guy that did that. Used the work gym showers before starting day.

[–] CyberMonkey404@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago

Crud, I don't have those

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I mean not in pedestrian and bike hostile places. But in Germany I was commuting 30km each way daily on an analog bike, no problem.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago

Same, would sometimes hit the Schauinsland on the way back home just for fun

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

For reference, 30km is 18.6 miles.

30 miles would be 48km.

It's feasible, but it's a pretty significant time investment!

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I mean considering people drive a hour each way in many places...

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 days ago

Yeah like, I've done it. It's not terrible.

If the weather is fine.

I wouldn't want to do it in blowing snow lol

[–] Itsreaver_@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago

Suddenly a millionare after reading this!

[+] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -8 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Actual financial literacy is crucial to success as an adult. You can complain about The System all you want but it will likely still be in place after all of us are bones in the ground, so make use of the resources you can achieve something with.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Condescending shitheads talking down to poor people like they have a FRACTION of the ability to stretch a dollar. Self flattering scolding that does nothing but justify a system that produces unlivable outcomes.

[–] rhandyrhoads@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I will say it's also easier to stretch a dollar when you have more money. There are some things that everyone needs where if you have more money up front you can buy something that will last longer and save you money over a period of time. Meanwhile if you're living paycheck to paycheck you may not have the money up front and need to go with the cheaper option and ultimately spend more money over time than the wealthier person. But again it's hard to even think about that let alone act on it when doing so could jeopardize being able to pay rent (which can in itself be an example of such a thing compared to owning a home,).

[–] zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 1 points 2 days ago

Codified as the Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness

[–] LemmyAtEmLemmyAtEm@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Ding ding ding!!!

[–] Toribor@corndog.social 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You're not wrong but generally it's very difficult for anyone to develop financial literacy unless they already have financial stability. Real hard to learn about the details of contributing to a Roth when you are already struggling to meet basic needs.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -3 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Anyone who has access to the Internet can begin learning the basics of financial literacy right now. That is the only barrier, other than being literate.

Here are some basic tips that could get someone with zero financial literacy started:

Don't use credit cards unless you can pay them off before interest accrues at the end of the month, otherwise you are wasting money and entering the Debt Trap.
Don't use Doordash and other expensive delivery services, pick up your own food or make it at home.
Make a budget, which should at least consist of a list of your monthly expenses such as housing, food, utilities, etc, and keep track of what you spend on it.
Subscriptions are leeches, don't subscribe to anything that you can avoid.
If you have an employer provided retirement plan, always put in what they will match so that you get the full match (free money).

[–] Toribor@corndog.social 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It really seems like you're trying to blame people in poverty for being in poverty and that if only they'd follow these simple steps they wouldn't be poor so clearly it must be their own fault for not educating themselves. It's so simple and easy, just don't doordash your avocado toast and put some money in your 401k!

Poverty begets poverty. It's not a personal failing. People can't make a home cooked meal after a 12 hour shift on minimum wage. People can't just decide to not take on credit card debt when their car they can barely afford needs maintenance because it's the only way they can get to work every day to make enough money to keep barely scraping by. Systemic issues trap people in a cycle that literally destroys their bodies and minds.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago

It really seems like you're imagining a bunch of things I never said anything about, because you want to get on your soapbox and talk more about poverty. Everything I suggested is completely achievable by many of those in poverty, to which I speak from personal experience.

[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Wow such a genius, after following this simple 5 bullet points I can now afford a house!

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -1 points 5 days ago

Well I've lived through poverty and the Debt Trap and worked my way out of it into success and stability, but if you want to ignore my advice that's your problem. My financial literacy allowed me to buy a house and land.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You can complain about The System all you want but it will likely still be in place after all of us are bones in the ground

Genuinely curious why you think this is the case. Do you think the current US Empire and other decaying Imperialist powers are sustainable, or at least enough to last the next 40-80 years?

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Yes of course it is sustainable. We have the resources to do everything we need for hundreds of years here in the USA without any external dependencies. The disaster recovery and continuity plans and infrastructure are already in place to ensure that the US government will continue through a variety of apocalyptic scenarios.

[–] chobeat@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

you have no fucking clue how brittle systems like electronics production, or oil supply are. USA, from a systemic point of view, is the most coupled and fragile production system in the world except maybe some micro-nation in the middle of the ocean.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago

You have no fucking clue what I know about, actually.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'm not talking about resources, but the entire Imperialist Economic Mode of Production, ie dying Capitalism. The US is largely de-industrialized, it makes most of its profits off of Imperialism, ie export of Financial and Industrial Capital. The US doesn't produce what it needs, generally, because it is more profitable to hyper-exploit the Global South.

The US Empire will bring about its own ruin.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sure thing Lenin, and I am the walrus.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Do you have any logical basis for rejecting what I've said, or are you just running on vibes and magic?

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I could ask you the same thing, and it would be bullshit to me, just as whatever I reply with would be to you. From my perspective you're in some dumbass communist fantasy based on the internet ramblings of children.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I dunno, you tell me where this is bullshit.

Over time, Capitalism trends towards monopolization. We see this with mergers, "daughter companies," and other alignments as groups coalesce into syndicates
Financial Capital, ie Banks, begin to control Industrial Capital through aquiring large amounts of shares and including conditions in loans, resulting in large-scale mergers of Capital
Companies seek to export Capital, both industrial and financial, to the Global South where resources and wages are cheaper, so as to increase profit margins tremendously.
Countries in the Global North generally divy amongst themselves different areas of the Global South
Underdevelopment due to expropriation of resources drives countries in the Global South against the Global North, cutting off revenue
As a consequence of deindustrialization combined with countries kicking out the Imperialist Powers, these countries in the Global North face crisis

Which do you disagree with?

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I disagree with the assertion points 1 through 6 are factual. Those are all extremely broad generalizations based on assumptions you hold. Some of those things do happen on occasion of course, but it's not a railroad track of 1 leads to 6 with no other possibilities. The financial industry is heavily regulated by the US Gov't which exerts control to prevent much of 1 - 3 on your list.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago

We can see it happen regularly in industry, as we have seen with the IMF, Blackrock, Amazon, and more.

The Capitalist State's role is symbiotic with the Financial Capitalists, not predatory. The State is controlled by the wealthy Capitalists.

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But ...
But ...

Trickle down economics!

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Capitalists:

The capitalists do trickle down onto the rest of America, it just isn't prosperity. Even worse, we export our sociopathic market capitalist behavior, encouraging other nations to treat their citizenry like disposable capital batteries for their elites... and our multinational oligarch leeches.

I feel shame for what we're doing to the world every damn day, spreading market capitalist hypergreed and tools of mass death like a fucking virus.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago

Chappelle's show for those wondering

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago

The best time to join a union was ten years ago.

The second best time is now.

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