this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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Was cyberpunk 2077 ruined by carbrain? (slrpnk.net)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by dillekant@slrpnk.net to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
26 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The phantom liberty expansion is out now, and something to note is just how many roads and cars are in the game considering... well... how are they still burning fossil fuels in 2077?

Something interesting about it is how the game now reads like Grand Theft Auto in the dystopian future. Cars exist so you must be able to drive and shoot out of them and there must be cops and there must be traffic and... all of that is sort of meaningless in that universe. So much of the marketing is set around cars, but if they got rid of the cars, if cars weren't there, then maybe they would have put more effort into the other systems.

Maybe the broken systems just wouldn't need to be built, because so many of them are shoehorned in around cars.

EDIT: wanted to address the comments here as they are all very similarly themed:

I am not talking about the fiction, I am talking about the game design. Yes it's a dystopia but that's not why the game is buggy or boring. Having cars in the fiction means the game must add mechanics to drive and get new cars and vehicular combat. Once there's so much car stuff, the game feels like GTA, which prompts people to make comparisons, which means CDPR needs even more GTA-like mechanics. That's time which could have gone into more RPG mechanics, better missions, etc.

The only time I was talking about the fiction was in reference to how much would cost to own a car, including roads and so on. Why isn't every road pay per use? Why isn't biofuel like $20 a litre? But that would be oppressive to drive in, and because it's a power fantasy, all of that goes by the wayside.

Overall my point was that just as cars dominate the city scape of the present, so they dominate the game design of everything where cars are present.

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[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 94 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The whole point of Cyberpunk's setting is that it's a capitalist hellscape. The corpos don't care about the environment or setting up a nice public transport network. And of course there is also the gameplay perspective, riding a train in a videogame gets very boring very quickly.

[–] emptyother@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah. Its probably just me that is boring enough to ride the train in GTA occasionally. Also the train in RDR2. Just watching nature and city goes by. Its relaxing. If its a interesting view. Which C2077 absolutely has a lot of.

[–] fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bear in mind that there's a whole series of Train Simulator games, so I can pretty much guarantee you're not the only fan of an in-game train ride :)

[–] Gadg8eer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

I build rail networks and cities in most of the games I play. There's something cathartic about building that's different from the catharsis of destroying or stealing.

As for CP2077, I actually like that they included cars because it's a dystopia. If cars, stroads and limited access motorways are the worst transport system ever, which they very much are, use them exclusively in dystopian future worlds and you've basically driven home the point easily. Of course, the fact that there's a metro system in Night City would cut into that, but clearly the people there have bought into carbrain like nothing we see in real life, judging by the disdain going on a date by train gets and the description of how the saying in Cyberpunk's world is de facto "Bread, Circuses and Automobiles" since the 1950s.

If anything, their over reliance on cars is a very anti-car artistic statement.

[–] BirdyBoogleBop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I thought there was only freight trains in GTA?

[–] lud@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I think you can ride the tram.

[–] emptyother@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

You're too young, or have you forgotten?

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

OP smacks of the criticism of the transwoman advertisement. "Are they really trying to tell us that commodification and fetishization of trans bodies is acceptable?"

No!!! The point is that the entire world is a cautionary tale about what happens when you allow corporations unlimited power!!!

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sorry but this is rubbish. It's a hellscape but also very fun and easy. The government or similar entity still pays for road infrastructure. Biofuel is cheap or free (do you ever fill up in game?). Hellscape but your character isn't effectively a chattel slave and you don't have any debt. At least have the design explore the problem. Make it so if you use a car in your heist you will end up losing money. Do something with the premise. Anything. Don't be like "whee this is fun and consequence free wow this is a corporate hellscape"

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 4 points 1 year ago

Yes, it's fun. It's a videogame. In your edit, you correctly identify the game as a power fantasy, as probably 80% of video games ultimately are. The consequences do exist in the story and lore, you do get into debt with your ripperdoc, lose your car for part of the game and almost lose your apartment. But they're ultimately not of huge consequence, because being in debt for most of the game wouldn't be very fun and is not the focus of the game. Your suggestion to have more consequences for driving is better than the "no cars" you originally proposed, but the systems would have to be well thought out. Just losing money for driving would not be a fun or interesting system. The developers ultimately put their focus on other aspects of the game, like the combat, cyberware and story, and I'm fine with that as I personally do really like the game.

[–] IzzyData@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's a dystopia not a utopia. I think that is the cyberpunk hellscape that is to be expected.

I think they should have focused harder on the campaign rather than the car-centric open world though. They were never going to match the how good GTA does it.

[–] Banshee@midwest.social 17 points 1 year ago

They aren't burning fossil fuels. They're burning CHOOH2, which is the product of a genetically engineered plant.

Everything else has already been addressed by others. It's a dystopia. Public transit exists in universe, but it's very dangerous (as is the rest of the city). The corporate solution is to upsell you cars.

[–] ag_roberston_author@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not fossil fuels. It's biofuel made from high-sugar wheat that was created by Biotechnica.

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/CHOOH2

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

TIL. Nevertheless, it must cost a lot more than it does in game.

[–] ag_roberston_author@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't understand why you think that biofuel would be cost prohibitive in a world with literal robots, sword arms, guns with tracking bullets the ability to jack-in to cyberspace and hack shit with your mind?

Plus it's not like 20 eddies a litre would be cost prohibitive anyway? You drop 10-15k on implants all the time.

As others have pointed out, it is intentionally meant to be a dystopian future, that is to say, a shit one. So the car prevalence could be intentional. (Also there is a public transit system in the lore, it's just not working in the game because they never finished it.)

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All the stuff you talk about is either hard sci-fi, or an inch away from hard sci-fi. A car that is efficient and makes a vroom vroom noise is not hard sci-fi. It's fantasy.

it’s not like 20 eddies a litre would be cost prohibitive anyway? You drop 10-15k on implants all the time.

This part is a fair point, you are incredibly consequential in the world, but that kind of adds to the idea that a car is not something everyday people can afford.

[–] bermuda@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Maybe. Lore states that it's vastly fuel efficient so youd only stop by on a very infrequent basis to top up. Like oil changes.

[–] Hundun@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In the case of CP, as it was already pointed out by other commenters: car culture is firmly rooted in the world building.

However, imagining av alternative world without cars could be interesting as well. How would that transform Night City? How would you make moment-to-moment movement and exploration fun and engaging in a game with big city distances, bit with no cars?

[–] Radicalized@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

There’s already dash, crouch dash, and air dash. Allow us to modify our cyberwear so we can increase sprint speed and double dash and we’re already more than halfway there.

[–] saigot@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I really think the gameplay of most futuristic or present day city settings really suffers because of this. Driving around is pretty boring, especially on a grid, and it isolates you from the environment just like IRL. Your probably arent going to stop your car and get out to check some small detail, but you would take a look if on foot. Games should lean into Parkour and other movement where you can stop fairly easily. Successful games already tend to lean away from driving unless it's the core mechanic, imagine how bad mirrors edge would be with cars, and notice how in fortnite most players gravitate to whatever non-car mechanic is gimmick of the month and rarely use the in world cars.

I think it would really cool if cp77 had something that launched you into the air and let you dive bomb an area far away.

[–] Hundun@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Totally! It's actually kinda surprising to see Cyberpunk with no true hoverboards, for example.

Also, one game that seemed to have done it right, was Infamous for PS3. You could ride the power lines, glide, zip around the city - it was really fun without really losing much on the exploration side

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

IT'S A DYSTOPIA DUMMY

[–] emptyother@programming.dev 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cars exist so you must be able to drive and shoot out of them and there must be cops and there must be traffic and…

Why wasnt this expectation in L.A. Noire? Didnt hear much yelling for cops and better traffic there. What we got was very barebones.

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Upvoting. Thanks for understanding my premise. Firstly, there are a lot of cars in the game, and you can still carjack, and the requisite physics must exist. You are a cop, so obviously cop chases don't make sense, but an enormous amount of time and effort was put into driving given it's got nothing to do with the game.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Something I always have noticed on cyberpunk games is that there's no traffic congestion, neither public transit while being overpopulated. Pretty unrealistic.

[–] dillekant@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

My issue is who is driving and what the roads look like. Somehow the government still pays for roads? No road rolls? Petrol / biofuel at reasonable prices? All cars aren't for the ultra rich?