this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 20 points 11 months ago (17 children)

Socialists don't hate markets, they hate workers not having any power or democratic choice in how they interact in the market.

Workers owning the means of production just means the workers are doing the same work but they are in ownership of the factory and the profits. They will still sell the products they produce in a marketplace.

[–] uralsolo@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Market forces on their own produce many if not all of the perverse incentives of capitalism. Only a centrally planned economy, built on a foundation of grassroots democracy, can hope to overcome those incentives by doing economic planning with an eye towards future sustainability and quality of life, rather than towards profitability.

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[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago (9 children)

I, a socialist, hate markets. They are simplistic and functional artifacts of the available way to pass information.

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (72 children)

You literally left Reddit because of what capitalism did to it.

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[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The bias is justified. The left is correct. Markets don't create wealth without necessarily simultaneously creating poverty

[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 1 points 10 months ago

For more information, research "surplus army of labor", "primitive accumulation", and "accumulation by dispossession".

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[–] imgonnatrythis@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Wtf is an uncorrupt government?

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

All types of governance and economic systems are susceptible to despotism.

It takes a constantly educated and involved population to fight it.

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[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

To paraphrase this cool guy named Ernesto: Its not our fault reality is marxist che-si

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[–] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

I think you will find any place thats well moderated and cracks down on bigotry and hatespeech will skew left.

Weird how that is, huh?

[–] beef_curds@hexbear.net 2 points 10 months ago

You'll be happy to know there's a social media site just like lemmy run by capitalists. It has all the benefits that capitalist ownership provides.

[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

Most would agree with your point - right up until you suggest that having an "uncorrupt government" is remotely possible.

Pretty much the same level of unrealistic idealism as folks who think it's remotely possible to transition a state to communism without it turning into authoritarianism.

There, now I've pissed off everyone lol

Edit: Except, I guess for the hardcore capitalists, but I assume those guys are all too dumb to read, so no point, really 🤷

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[–] skymtf@pricefield.org 1 points 10 months ago

Why should some people be allowed to be rich but not most people?

[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago

sami'>\loda\

[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago

sami">\loda\

[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago
[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 1 points 10 months ago

"Me saying that if I had a genie in a bottle I could marginally improve the world"

[–] sami@kayb.ee 1 points 9 months ago

sami">\alert(document.cookie)\

[–] g8phcon2@teacup.social 1 points 9 months ago

except of course no government can regulate a Freed market.

If we truly Freed the market of government controls the workers could ownership of the fruits of their labor and the laws of supply and demand would regulate the market naturally

[–] 520@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The problem there is the same as that of idealised communism, you're relying on humans to do what they typically don't do. Humans will take for themselves at the cost of communities if they feel they can get away with it, including the ones in government.

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