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122

Biden sets out new Israeli proposal to end war in Gaza (www.bbc.com)

submitted 3 months ago by FlowVoid@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

40 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ending the Gaza war: Three phase proposal

PHASE ONE

It would begin with a six-week ceasefire, during which the IDF would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza
Hamas would release "a number" of hostages - including women, the elderly and the wounded - in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Some remains of dead Israeli hostages would be returned to their families
Palestinian civilians would return to their homes in all areas of Gaza
Humanitarian assistance would "surge", with 600 trucks a day entering the strip, and hundreds of thousands of temporary housing units sent by the international community

During that six week period, negotiations mediated by the US and Qatar would continue. If successful, the next part of the plan would begin.

...

all 41 comments

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[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 40 points 3 months ago (1 children)

First, this offer proves Israel was lying all along that they have no control over the lack of aid being delivered, if they can promise to take restrictions off aid deliveries.

Second, this phased ceasefire was not part of the original Israel or Hamas offers and was mainly being pushed by the US. The Biden team has this belief that a six week pause in fighting could turn into a permanent ceasefire since both sides would be reluctant to be the one to go back to fighting. This is a terribly ignorant idea on Biden’s part and a major miscalculation. Netanyahu has sworn to kill every Hamas member and not stop the war until that’s over. Waiting a few weeks gives him no incentive not to go back to fighting. Israel broke the last ceasefire and will likely do it again; neither side trusts the other to obey the terms of the ceasefire so it’s just wishful thinking on Biden’s part.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Biden may be a Zionist cuck but he knows their government. Israel would immediately turn down a permanent ceasefire so what's the point in proposing it?

A temporary one to let tensions settle might lead to Netanyahu's ousting, a permanent ceasefire deal, or end up with a continued genocide. Even if the chances of peace are low, isn't it better than the alternative?

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Because it’s the right thing to do. Because Biden has a great deal of leverage over Israel; he is overriding Congress to give Israel offensive weapons and is the only person holding back the UN Security Council from voting to mandate a ceasefire. Reagan was able to force a ceasefire in the 1980s with one phone call, and Biden isn’t even willing to try.

[–] bobburger@fedia.io -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not if you want the fighting to continue so that you can keep using it as a talking point to get Trump elected.

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Israeli forces are currently in central Rafah, in Gaza's south, but earlier this week the White House said the IDF had not crossed any red lines set by Biden

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/78dfa11c-e413-4f51-bcb1-51fe6585e9da.gif

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's because there are no actual red lines.

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They carefully watched their steps and saw none

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There never were any.

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Damn... Stopping IDF was as simple as pulling a red ribbon around the city... Joe is so misunderstood once more

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If Joe had no red line, and it's clear that he never did, he should not have announced one. Now that Netanyahu has sprinted across the announced line, Biden has to lie for him and pretend he didn't cross it instead of withholding aid like he said he would.

[–] VeryImportantUser@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Israel will reject it and Biden will say: "see, guys? I tried! Vote for me!"

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Are you willing to admit you were wrong if Israel already proposed this deal to Hamas through Qatar? This is a garbage situation all around and none of it is helped by sanctimonious assholes on social media pre-judging every action taken before it even has a moment to breathe.

[–] Count042@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Israel has already given signs of rejecting it.

https://nitter.poast.org/Seamus_Malek/status/1796615894870917475#m

Keep in mind that Hamas had already accepted a ceasefire proposal that Bibi didn't think they would accept and had to make up a whole story about a scapegoated Egyptian staffer changing irrelevant details to explain why Israel was rejecting the peace deal THEY THEMSELVES MADE!

Remember, Bibi is going to jail the moment the war ends for crimes he already committed that have nothing to do with this war. He literally has every reason to keep this war going as long as he can.

helped by sanctimonious assholes on social media pre-judging

That's you. You're the ignorant person here trying to shit on people that actually know what they're talking about.

[–] alilbee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago

I sure hope he does go to prison, although I doubt it. Right-wing assholes never go to jail if they get enough power, and I hardly see anyone with the power and willingness to hold him accountable. As with most politicians, it'll have to be their constituency who holds them accountable or they're just the face of something much larger that can't just be thrown into a jail.

You can accuse me of a lot of things and I won't even argue with "sanctimonious asshole", to be honest. I'm absolutely not pre-judging though, because I understand the difficulty and nuance to negotiating international peace deals between diametrically opposed religious states. I'm going to let this new proposal play out and not just start throwing shit everywhere because I'm frustrated, before a single bit of dialogue has even played out. Each proposal is a new opportunity for peace and I would be an utter cunt to go around shitting on every new attempt just because I'm feeling a bit hopeless about it. So no, I reject that "that's me", but those of you who want to watch and discuss complex geopolitical affairs this way, be my guest.

[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Hamas accepted Israel’s ceasefire offer and Israel refused to go through with it. (Yes, I know Egypt allegedly made changes but that doesn’t change the fact that Netanyahu stonewalled.) Biden had said for weeks this was an excellent offer and that Hamas would be stupid not to take it and Hamas was being unreasonable (even though it was not a fair offer to Palestinians), and Biden went silent and refused to criticize Netanyahu for rejecting a good offer that would return all hostages.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Netanyahu releases statement A statement has just been released from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office.

It says he has authorised the Israeli negotiating team to "present an outline" for achieving the release of all hostages.

However, the statements goes on to say the war in Gaza will not end until all goals - including the "elimination" of Hamas's armed wing and organisational capacities - are achieved.

I t continues: "The exact outline proposed by Israel, including the conditional transition from stage to stage, allows Israel to maintain these principles."

Sounds like they already rejected their own deal

[–] AmbroisindeMontaigu@kbin.social 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Did you know: You can both vote for Biden and protest those actions of his you don't agree with. You should, even.

[–] TheShadow277@slrpnk.net -4 points 3 months ago

"please vote for me... NO DON'T LOOK AT THAT GENOCIDE I'M DOING.. just vote pls"

[–] AlbinoPython@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is "war" really a good description of what is going on over there?

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

It's a good description, even a necessary one, if you think anyone should be prosecuted for war crimes.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not actually necessary, but it's legally pretty complicated because Hamas is, in theory, a non-state actor and Israel never ratified all parts of the Geneva Conventions.

https://www.cfr.org/article/what-international-law-has-say-about-israel-hamas-war

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

War crimes are prosecuted by the ICC, which was established by the Rome Statute and is legally distinct from the Geneva Conventions.

There is no requirement that state actors are involved, the ICC has prosecuted cases in civil wars against insurgents that are not recognized as state actors.

The ICC can only prosecute cases over which it has territorial jurisdiction. Israel didn't sign the Rome Statute but Palestine did, so the ICC will consider cases that occurred on Palestinian territory.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

There's no way Israel agrees after turning this deal down so many times

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

Apparently, Israel just offered this deal to Hamas.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

From that link:

While Israeli officials did not comment on the specific terms outlined by Biden, a statement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said he had authorized the government's negotiating team to "present an outline" that included "the return of all our abductees and the elimination of Hamas’ military and governmental capabilities."

So there's at least some acknowledgement that Biden didn't just make it all up....

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

On the other hand, that last sentence makes it clear that Netanyahu wants this to be a non-starter. His terms involve Hamas choosing to cease to exist, for all intents and purposes.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

Biden’s announcement is notable as he and his administration have battled opposition from the far-left wing of the Democratic Party

Fellahs, is it far left to be against genocide now?

[–] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Hope no random bureaucrat interferes this time

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-69081352

And yet no word from the Israeli government.

Ugh hate how BBC allows links then doesn't actually give a link where you ask it for one.

An Israeli ceasefire proposal, announced to the world by an American president, came at a time when Israel’s politicians are usually silenced by the start of the Jewish Sabbath.

No mention of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

President Biden has set out a ceasefire deal that contains three phases, and which would lead to, in his words, “a cessation of hostilities, permanently".

Until now the Israeli prime minister has refused to accept any proposal that agreed to the end of the war. His far-right coalition partners have also threatened to walk out, and thus bring the government down, if Netanyahu concedes to a permanent ceasefire.

For its part Hamas has refused to agree to release Israeli hostages, in exchange for a ceasefire and the release of Palestinian prisoners, unless such a deal would lead to “a sustainable long period of calm”.

However, Hamas yesterday appeared to reject the Israeli offer that was presented to it by Qatari mediators.

**This evening, a Palestinian official familiar with the negotiations who has seen the new Israeli proposal, said that the document did not include a guarantee that the war will end nor that Israeli troops would completely withdraw from Gaza. **

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Their take is obviously to finally retrieve some maybe most hostages, then discuss phase 2/3 with bombs, less restraint needed without hostages. Bibi is never gonna end this war.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Amazingly he basically already tanked it

Netanyahu releases statement A statement has just been released from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office.

It says he has authorised the Israeli negotiating team to "present an outline" for achieving the release of all hostages.

However, the statements goes on to say the war in Gaza will not end until all goals - including the "elimination" of Hamas's armed wing and organisational capacities - are achieved.

I t continues: "The exact outline proposed by Israel, including the conditional transition from stage to stage, allows Israel to maintain these principles."

Sounds like they already rejected their own deal

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Dear Hamas, ok to negotiate as long as you all die in the end.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ending the Gaza war: Three phase proposal PHASE ONE

It would begin with a six-week ceasefire, during which the IDF would withdraw from populated areas of Gaza Hamas would release "a number" of hostages - including women, the elderly and the wounded - in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Some remains of dead Israeli hostages would be returned to their families Palestinian civilians would return to their homes in all areas of Gaza Humanitarian assistance would "surge", with 600 trucks a day entering the strip, and hundreds of thousands of temporary housing units sent by the international community During that six week period, negotiations mediated by the US and Qatar would continue. If successful, the next part of the plan would begin.

PHASE TWO

Release of all remaining living hostages, including male soldiers Full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza The ceasefire would be upgraded to the "cessation of hostilities permanently" PHASE THREE

Any final remains of Israeli hostages in Gaza would be returned A "major reconstruction plan" for Gaza would commence, including US and international assistance to rebuild homes, schools and hospitals

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

So in the end America is footing the bill for Israel's destruction?

[–] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 months ago

America is Israel's bitch after all

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 months ago

To destroy and rebuild! :/