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submitted 10 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Colleges across the country are grappling with the same problem as academic setbacks from the pandemic follow students to campus. At many universities, engineering and biology majors are struggling to grasp fractions and exponents. More students are being placed into pre-college math, starting a semester or more behind for their majors, even if they get credit for the lower-level classes.

Colleges largely blame the disruptions of the pandemic, which had an outsize impact on math. Reading scores on the national test known as NAEP plummeted, but math scores fell further, by margins not seen in decades of testing. Other studies find that recovery has been slow.

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[-] keet@kbin.social 67 points 10 months ago

HS math teacher here. A lot of these problems existed prior to the pandemic. Parents making excuses for kids. Teachers making excuses for kids to keep parents and admin off their backs. Kids too reliant on calculators to develop "number-sense". Parents perpetuating the myth of the "math gene" they don't have because they failed at the "new math " of the 1970s, etc. The list goes on and on. The whole thing where ELA/Social Studies/History/etc. teachers are struggling with AI like ChatGPT? We went through that when Photomath and the like were released. The shortcuts you take in math WILL catch up with you.

That being said, maturity plays a HUGE part. A dedicated math student will struggle, but won't take shortcuts. They are better for it. The only thing that has changed is that shortcuts are much easier to take and are much more readily available. I cannot count how many shortcuts I took as a teenager, only to realize later that I F$#@! up long-term with my learning journey. Just look at any community college. Students that were "bad at math" suddenly have the realization that if they put in the effort, then the intellectual and/or GPA dividends will pay off in spades.

[-] Alto@kbin.social 28 points 10 months ago

I'm a firm believer that a not insignificant portion of people had one or two really shit math teachers at some point, decided that they're bad at math because of it, and then proceeded to just give up. Very often it was specifically related to fractions.

The math professors at my uni were fantastic, and I saw many friends who always thought they were bad at math have lightbulb moments where something finally clicks.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

So, like personally, all of my math teachers taught math as a goal in itself. Which is incredibly un-interesting. It’s taught like a chore.

Which is an incredible disservice.

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[-] keet@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago

I can completely understand that perspective. However, some students are just not mature enough to handle every type of math thrown at them when it is. One "bad" teacher can ruin any subject. Some students just aren't "ready" when the curriculum (or other powers that be) decides that they should be.

[-] Alto@kbin.social 11 points 10 months ago

Most subjects also don't build off of the last class anywhere near to the same degree as math. You have a shitty teacher in geography, that's not really going to be putting you at anywhere near as much of a disadvantage when you take world history.

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[-] freeman@lemmy.pub 14 points 10 months ago

I was told by one of my kids teachers that teaching my second grader to carry the one was wrong.

Also they were basically doing algebra in the beginnging just not using letters. Ie: 1 + __ = 9 , fill in the blank. So I taught my kids to just put x in the blank part and solve for x. Teacher said I was teaching them bad habits.

I am still flabbergasted. My kid is not a math wiz to this day, but I’m pretty sure the strategies im teaching them are the only things getting them by. I’ve taken to teaching them dice games like 10,000/Farkle and making them keep score.

[-] Arthur_Leywin@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

I still continue to cheat/take shortcuts because I need to ensure I pass because if I don't, I wasted thousands of dollars. If I had the luxury of actually learning rather than performing well on tests, I could have been a better student.

[-] keet@kbin.social 5 points 10 months ago

Long-term, shortcuts will still hamper learning. However, there is still a lot to be said about the over-reliance on testing in education in general. It, unfortunately, is a system that even educators must operate in without any real input. You likely will be surprised what you can do with a little guidance in a self-paced situation. What was that Mark Twain quote here - "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education."

[-] emax_gomax@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

That's not really your fault but i hope you've planned what the long term means for you. We live in a society that expects higher education for any meaningful kind of occupation but simultaneously gate keeps it and pressures kids into lifetimes work of debt to keep forcing them through the system.

[-] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I struggled with any math basically beyond fifth grade. It was incredibly hard for me. Math continued to build on the previous year until I worked my ass off to get C's. Every year after that I got C's all while spending hours and hours studying the homework and equations and doing problem after problem. I was in remedial math at community college. The only reason I passed college algebra was because the homework was online and I was able to do every problem over and over again until I got it right. That was 14% of my grade and got me up to a C.

Some people don't get the support they need. In a subject like math that is detrimental.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Parents perpetuating the myth of the “math gene” they don’t have because they failed at the "new math " of the 1970s, etc.

This is a huge reason why I've never been able to help my daughter with her math homework. I learned to do things a totally different way from the way they teach now.

[-] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

I recognize the way they do math now as very similar to how I do it in my head. I still couldn't help my niece. The rules were so fucky to me.

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[-] SpookyCoffee@lemmy.world 61 points 10 months ago

Are they sure it’s pandemic? And not just a new product of the good ‘ol American education system?

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I tutor college students. While many students struggled with math before the pandemic, the fallout from the changes made during the pandemic made these deficiencies so much worse.

[-] PeleSpirit@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

It could be long covid for some too, foggy brain probably wouldn't help.

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

It could be but the reality is that the educational system by and large bungled the transition from in person to online classes. The quality of education during that time was severely compromised.

[-] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

How are they getting into college? I guess colleges are accepting lower standards to keep money flowing?

Otherwise wouldn't the students just do terribly on the math section of the SAT/ACT and just be denied entry?

Sounds like that is what accredited Universities should be required to do if so. If you haven't learned the prerequisites there is no reason to be acting like they should be there.

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As for math, something that Ive noticed over and over again is that if students are explicitly told to solve a specific math problem eg. 145 × 306 = ? they can generally do that but if you give them a problem that requires them to know when to multiply, divide, add, subtract etc. they struggle. They also struggle in finding systems that are analogous to one another and use the same math. eg. limiting reagents and cooking. i.e what do you run out of first? how much stuff can be made given what you have? They can do that for things theyre familiar with but they cant do the exact same type of problem with molecules instead of say... apples and oranges. That kind of weakness wont be caught in their grades or SAT/ACT problems unless they rely heavily on those type of problems which they dont. And its also something that is harder to teach and easier to fall through the cracks during a pandemic.

AND on top of that, online classes are harder to control the use of resources that they shouldnt be using and was arguably not as well prepped and planned for. Teachers simply were not prepared to teach remotely and in some cases eg. labs, you cant really effectively teach the same thing remotely as in person.

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[-] hark@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago

They're blaming the pandemic which caused lockdowns for a couple of years for college students struggling with fractions and exponents? This is math that is supposed to be learned before high school. I don't think the pandemic is to blame for this.

[-] ArtieShaw@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago

I don’t think the pandemic is to blame for this.

It's not. It has been a problem for years.

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[-] Elderos@lemmings.world 33 points 10 months ago

The pandemic made everything worse, but students struggled with math as long as I have been alive. As someone who loved science and math stuff outside school, but hated it with a passion in school, this text really put my thoughts into words as to why :

Lockhart's Lament: https://maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

TLDR: It is taught wrong.

[-] Ertebolle@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

As a dad constantly frustrated with the shittiness of my kids’ math curriculum: thanks, this is wonderful, puts to words a lot of what I’ve been feeling and more.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago

Also an entire education system that does its best to be bad at making math interesting.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Yep. I've always been bad at math, I still am, but at least college math was interesting even though I didn't get it very well.

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[-] callouscomic@lemm.ee 29 points 10 months ago

I struggled with certain math concepts that I should have learned in high school because my school district had low expectations and failed to prepare me for college math. I also was unprepared for grad school math because undergrad failed to prepare me cause it was so dumbed down. This has been a fundamental issue for a long time. All of this was over a decade ago.

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[-] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 10 months ago

the pandemic was three years ago. If these people are getting into college now, they had to have learned that stuff prior to the pandemic

[-] GladiusB@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

The hardest maths are usually in their junior or senior year in high school. It's reasonable to believe that if they weren't challenged to make the connections it didn't stick. Just because they learned the fundamentals doesn't mean they went and manipulated them in the manner they need to be familiar with for higher learning.

[-] ZodiacSF1969@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

But it says they are struggling with fractions and exponents, don't those get taught earlier on?

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[-] ThatHermanoGuy@midwest.social 28 points 10 months ago

Don't these colleges have any admissions standards? What's going on that they're admitting these idiots?

[-] neptune@dmv.social 11 points 10 months ago

Well it turns out that the SAT and College Admissions/grades are all on a curve. Hell, even real life is relatively on a curve.

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[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

I kind of feel bad for thinking this way, but regardless of whose fault it is, if you don't understand fractions you should not be pursuing a STEM degree.

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[-] Saneless@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 months ago

My kids learned these in 6th and 7th grade. But sure, it wasn't the classes 6-7 years before college, it was only the ones 2-3 years ago..

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[-] OceanSoap@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago

Math was a big issue for me, and all the colleges in CA were shutting down any math classes lower than college algebra. I barely made it into the beginning and intermediate algebra classes before they shut them down.

What they do now if funnel all the students who don't test into college algebra into "college math topics" which is an array of real-life mathematics that you'd come scross, like voting types and loans/interest rates. Which is a good thing to have as a class, but wouldn't have helped me get my degree in drafting.

It's a real good thing khan academy exsists.

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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
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