this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2023
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[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 72 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The 8000th "Covid killed cities" article, just shifting the goalposts and jumping around to different cities with different metrics out of context to make it seem worse than it is.

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 66 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Capitalism killed cities, not COVID.

[–] Mmrnmhrm@sh.itjust.works 43 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 24 points 9 months ago

They do too, but the cost of living (a problem exacerbated by capitalism treating property as an investment) has pushed workers out of cities, which kills the ability of businesses to keep employees, and thus the downtown empties of businesses like restaurants.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Urbanization has been increasing globally for hundreds of years. Nothing killed cities.

[–] Gabu@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Therein lies your problem – USA is just barely civilized.

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago

Walmart, suburbs, and the Internet killed downtowns IMO.

[–] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you saying that you don't think cities are having issues?

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I'm saying cities aren't dying. Cities reinvent themselves when they have issues. Oh no, the textile industry is leaving NYC after WWII and the area those factories were in is considered a slum, the city is dying... and now that area is SoHo.

If this article was just trying to say "cities are still working their way back to pre-covid commercial activity levels" then sure, there is a temporary issue from a generational pandemic, agreed. But if you think people are going to stop moving to cities long term you are just wrong.

[–] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago

I mean the author is basically saying what you're saying. the title definitely left off a keyword from the title : "[Traditional] Downtowns are dead, dying or on life support... " with their definition of traditional downtowns being only business focused downtowns, rather than muxed usage downtowns

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Gotta agree. I travel extensively and have seen downtrodden town centers as well as vibrant ones. There are multiple factors, not just “white flight” which has had decades to be mitigated or shift culturally. One of the truths is that people are generally moving to urban areas. That’s where the jobs are. That means leaving small towns. However, if that small town is near an urban area it stands a good chance of getting an economic boost as move in or people looking to “get away” dump money into the tourist market. Yeah, crime and poverty do a lot to keep economic improvement away, but even places like Oakland in California, a hotbed of crime in the ‘80s/‘90s, has seen an economic boost and an overall improvement as rising property values made the area more desirable. Towns will grow or shrink as economic opportunities leave or arrive.

There are going to be winners and losers, but the general trend is that urban areas are still going to be the bigger beneficiaries.

[–] although8172@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How much of the boost in Oakland was from SF just getting expensive as fuck to live in?

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Quite a lot. I didn’t want to make a pedantic and exhaustive list of economic causal factors, but buyers being outpriced in a nearby area forcing them to look at previously undesirable areas can certainly be a factor.

[–] although8172@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 9 months ago

Interesting, nah you’re good man. Not from the area nor a field anything about, just was curious