this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2025
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It sure is sad.
I got to say what grinds my gears more than it should is that some people in their fight against mysogyny and patriarchy are really mindless in their wording. Just today when i browsed reddit (my bad i know) i came across a thread that rightfully was upset about bigoted gay men and someone wrote "being gay does not stop some men from being... you know men. Toxic and Misogynistic." And i just felt getting upset and was wondering if it is really so hard to write "Some men, even when gay, still are toxic and mysogonistic", which is probably what they wanted to say anyways. I think that this can push away some men that already feel dismissed or are struggling.
I completely agree! Words have power!
If I see that sort of thing, I try and correct it. Gently. It never feels good when you get hit with a generalization meant for someone else, but especially when you dislike that generalization, too.
I still argue, especially when my ADHD meds wear off, and my impulse control goes out the window, but we can all at least try to be better to one another.
I'm always surprised to see people defending that kind of language, I've generally got a positive response explaining why it's hurtful, but why try to divide us? I hate that women have to deal with these weirdos too, why am I being grouped with them when I'm only trying to help?
Because feminism is the movement for women. It's literally in the name. But feminism isn't a concrete philosophy - it is a "big tent" of ideas. It's a vibe. Anything can be feminism as long as it feels like feminism. And what feels like feminism? Whatever the people who make up feminists think - ie, whatever women think.
Feminism, as a movement, is a tribe. It is vast and diverse in its members and philosophies, but all identify as feminists. And the golden rule of all tribes is that you must support your compatriots in the face of outsiders. So while some feminists may find the above statement distasteful, and more may believe there is more nuance to be had, few will out and out condemn it on a public forum where non-feminists are included in the discussion. And there are always a few who will defend it as "just venting" or "according to statistics..."
The "all men are trash" narrative is quite common among women. In particular, among women who are experiencing frustration or pain from men. Some of this pain is very real and traumatic. Some of it is run of the mill breakup drama. And most women, at some point in their lives, have probably thought "all men are trash", because they were feeling down or hurt or frustrated. And thus, the narrative is quite common/empathetic to most feminists. As a "big tent" and a "safe space to vent", it is therefore allowed as a legitimate feminist narrative, even if it violates most rational feminist philosophy about egalitarianism.
I think this is a real good explanation, thanks. I hope it will help me to cope when i next time come across a bad generalization. Tbh i shouldn't even feel bad but my sister is also doing this and gets very upset when i point it out.
I mean, I wouldn't cope so much as change your beliefs and behaviors. These generalizations are wrong and bad (at least from my perspective) and should be challenged when you encounter them.
Feminism is many things, but it is not the singular manifestation of objective goodness. It is just an amorphous collection of people who share the same identity. There is nothing wrong with this, and this amorphous blob has done a lot of good in the world, but it doesn't mean that the blob is beyond critique. So when it deserves critique, critique it.
Also, if you are a man and self identify as a feminist... I would reevaluate and stop identifying as a feminist. There are whole feminist truisms about how men/straights/white people/cis people need to shut up and listen. Certainly there is a lot to be learned from listening. But at the same time, the shut up part is telling - the reality is, as a man, you will always be a second class citizen in feminist circles. Your opinions will always carry less weight. You will always be seen as less trustworthy or less competent. You will be excluded from gatherings, conversations, and inner circles because of something you cannot change about yourself. Since feminism is the women's movement, we can understand why this would be the case much of the time. But simultaneously, it is difficult to square this with having a positive self-image. Do you really want to identify with a group where your contributions always have less worth, and where you will never be a member in full standing?
Saying you don't identify as a feminist is like saying you don't identify as a tennis player. Sure, you play tennis occasionally for fun, but you aren't going to make tennis the most important thing in your life. Sometimes you won't get invited to the parties the real tennis players go to, and that is okay, because playing tennis is not a significant part of your identity. For others, it is, and that is okay too. And you shouldn't feel bad if the people at the tennis parties say you don't play enough tennis - those people are just dicks.