Before unions were a thing, if a workforce wanted a raise, it was traditional to say “hey boss, give us a raise, or we’ll burn your fucking factory down”

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 99 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And now that they've made unions all but illegal, we'll eventually return to that trusted tradition.

Either we settle things collectively and politely, or we settle things not so politely.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 44 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This was the whole purpose of our founding fathers.

Kings were getting beheaded. They knew enough that if they didn't want to watch their backs constantly, they needed to spread power thin.

It's the point of good faith in government. It goes back to the Code of Hammurabi. We have these laws so that we can all mostly agree on how things should be handled in a reasonable way.

When people can't rely on laws and justice, eventually blood spills.

These people have been so intent on gathering money and power, they haven't realized why the founding fathers did the exact opposite.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

When people can’t rely on laws and justice, eventually blood spills.

Agreed. It's pretty much just a question of how long "eventually" is.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I thought the purpose of the US founding fathers was to gain power to prevent the British government from having a say in abolishing slavery. Also so they could ignore the treaty the British made with the Indigenous peoples living to the west of the 13 colonies. They wanted that land and didn't like those assholes in London preventing westward expansion via genocide.

These people have been so intent on gathering money and power, they haven’t realized why the founding fathers did the exact opposite.

You might be surprised about how consistent they are with the "Founding Fathers" by saying some nice words about "freedom" while their actions say the opposite. The American Revolution didn't fundamentally alter things (slavery existed before and after the revolution) it only changed who was in power. Pretty words on a paper didn't give people freedom. It was people voting, unionizing, and oh yeah, a bloody civil war that brought freedom. And then even more voting and unionizing and protesting for over a century.

The US is a weird place not too dissimilar from the society depicted in 1984, just with Big Brother replaced by Founding Father. Founding Father isn't watching over you. Founding Father was hypocritical slave-master that would have more in common with the likes of Elon Musk than they would ever have with you.

Writing nice words about freedom while acquiring wealth from the work of slaves, isn't that consistent with Elon Musk?

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Most of the founding fathers wanted to abolish slavery, but they also knew they needed the economic power of the southern states' cotton trade and that they would be virulently against ending slavery. They kicked that can down the road, but laid the groundwork that eventually led us there for the most part.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Most of the founding father fucking owned slaves.

Elon Musk writes about rights and freedoms. Thomas Jefferson wrote about right and freedoms. Elon Musk is shit to the workers he gets his wealth from. Thomas Jefferson got his wealth from slaves. Elon Musk sexually harasses his female workers. Thomas Jefferson impregnated his slaves.

Elon Musk and the other billionaires are being 100% consistent with the Founding Fathers you idolize. This is why arguing that these billionaire assholes aren't "in keeping with the Founding Fathers" is so weak. Deep down we all know that these guys are acting exactly like the Founding Fathers. It really makes sense for so many people to think Trump, Musk and all the other scumbags are like the Founding Fathers because they actually are. They just aren't like the mythologized Founding Fathers that you believe in. But the Founding Fathers you believe in never existed.

The actual people were just a group of rich slave masters that wanted to take away more land from indigenous people. They wrote some nice words about rights and freedoms to fool people into being willing to die to serve their interests. Which is exactly what MAGA is all about isn't it? Rich people talking big about rights and freedoms to get people to support them having more power.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You may want to freshen up on your history. Ending slavery was a huge debate right at the beginning. They chose poorly in the end, but not for no reason.

Also, there's a reason the only person you could come up with for your silly comparison was Thomas Jefferson. He was probably one of the most flawed of the founding fathers. Though he's still a significantly better man than Musk on the whole.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

George Washington also owned slaves. As did most of your Founding Fathers: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/sep/10/arlen-parsa/evidence-shows-most-47-men-famous-declaration-inde/

The founding principles of the USA were around rights and freedoms for land owning white men only. Everyone else were meant to serve them. Which is more consistent with the principles of Elon Musk than with your principles.

Though he’s still a significantly better man than Musk on the whole.

Thomas Jefferson literally owned slaves. Elon Musk offered to buy a horse for an employee to get a handy, while Jefferson raped his slaves. Jefferson was way more "flawed" than Elon Musk is.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I guess the world can be whatever you want when you just make up reality in your head.

Good luck with that.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So you don't believe that George Washington owned slaves? Talk about making up a reality in your head.

You were indoctrinated from a young age to believe in the myth of the Founding Fathers. Everything you heard in school, all the the monuments, the faces printed on your currency all reinforce your beliefs. So I understand that it's not easy to accept that these guys were the Elon Musks and Donald Trumps of their times. But it's not some dead slave masters that guarantee your rights. This mentality results in apathy and taking rights for granted which made the US susceptible to fascism. Mythologizing a false past leads to people wanting to go back to that false past.

I wouldn't go so far as to say MAGA is about wanting to go back to full on slavery, but there is a feeling there that people of certain ethnicities should "know their place". And people certainly "knew their place" when the Founding Fathers were running things didn't they?

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You sir, are entirely divorced from reality. It would be best for you to stop replying to the straw man you made up in your head and reconsider this entire exchange.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

Which of these isn't real?

Most of Founding Fathers owned slaves
Elon Musk treats workers like shit
The Founding Fathers wrote pretty words about rights and freedoms
Elon Musk writes words about right and freedoms.
Founding Fathers were wealthy because of the work done by slaves
Elon Musk is wealthy because of work done by oppressed people under apartheid

You keep saying I'm divorced from reality, but which of these things do you think isn't real?

[–] Damionsipher@lemmy.world 37 points 2 weeks ago

Molotov cocktails remain a cheap and effective workforce bargaining tool. 2nd amendment silenced handguns just got added to that tool belt.