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Is Python's tooling incredibly difficult, or am I just stupid? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 month ago by zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works to c/programming@programming.dev

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So I'm no expert, but I have been a hobbyist C and Rust dev for a while now, and I've installed tons of programs from GitHub and whatnot that required manual compilation or other hoops to jump through, but I am constantly befuddled installing python apps. They seem to always need a very specific (often outdated) version of python, require a bunch of venv nonsense, googling gives tons of outdated info that no longer works, and generally seem incredibly not portable. As someone who doesn't work in python, it seems more obtuse than any other language's ecosystem. Why is it like this?

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[–] Die4Ever@programming.dev 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not sure this can be really fixed with Python 3, maybe we just have to hope for Python 4

[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's fixed, and the python version had nothing to do with it. Just use hatch

[–] Tja@programming.dev 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ah yes, the 15th standard we've been waiting for!

[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's not a standard, it's built on standards.

You can also use Poetry (which recently grew standard metadata support) or plain uv venv if you want to do things manually but fast.

[–] Zykino@programming.dev 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Just use this one... or any of this 4 others.

This is the issue for us, python outsiders. Each time we try we get a different answer with new tools. We are outside of the comtunity, we don't know the trend, old and new, pro and cons.

Your first recommandation is hatch... first time I've heard of it. Uv seems trendy in this thread, but before that it was unknown to me too.

As I understands it, it should be pip's job. When it detect I'm in a project it install packages in it and python use them. It can use any tool under the hood, but the default package manager shoud be able to do it on its own.

[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Uv and pip do the same thing, uv is just faster.

Hatch has the same role as Poetry or tox: managing environments for you.

Applications should be packaged properly, in a self contained installer for exactly this demographic. It's not Python's fault that this isn't common practice.