this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2024
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Usually I'm extremely sympathetic of Brexit woes considering the slim majority, lying Leave campaign, and considering the vote happened immediately after the EU refugee crisis where anti-EU sentiment was at a high all over the union.
I also usually remind the people that call for blood that, at the time, countries like France, Italy, Czechia, Austria, the Netherlands, Greece, and others had the same level or higher anti-EU sentiment. That people are lucky only the UK's leadership was stupid enough to allow the vote to happen when it did, and that the UK's population aren't any more guilty or deserving of punishment than a slew of other European populations.
But UK farmers? Nah. These people are business owners who should be expected to do their research. These people should've known that cutting ties with the strictest food market on Earth and opening the floodgates to food from elsewhere would damage their business. They voted for Brexit overwhelmingly. I have much less sympathy for these people.
The positive is that the Tories are heading for an electoral catastrophe. And farmers hold immense sway for the Tories in a way they don't with Labour.
The farmers are guilty because they were just greedy. So greedy that they didn't engage their brains. They only wanted to do was be able to basically poison people and get away with it with really dodgy food practices, and are now upset that they can't do that. They can go swing on it.
One ignorant tantrum after another, their minds not only closed, but forced shut and locked.
Just like all those ignorant expats living in places like Benidorm or Tenerife, they also voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, then when the hammer of the new strict rules came down on them, that ignorant, bitter and self-satisfied smirk was wiped from their faces.
They all probably still blame everyone around except themselves, as ignorance and stupidity tends to double, triple, quadruple down.
That's not actually true. Over 70% of Brits living in the EU wanted to remain part of the EU. Many of them weren't eligible to vote in the referendum, though, due to living abroad for too long.
A poll from 2023 puts anti-EU sentiment in France (ie. Leave) at 26%. Not great, but obviously not very high. And I think a "remain" camp in France would have learned a few things from brexit.
I'm talking about at the time. I.e. around the time of the EU refugee crisis. 2023 polling has no bearing on ~2015 polling.
Of course it's higher now, the same is true everywhere in the EU I'd expect, as well as in the UK. Brexit has been a a massive bit of positive PR for the EU, and Euroscepticism has dropped considerably since.
Thanks for updating your post to make it clear that you were talking about anti EU sentiment at the time. That makes it clearer, and I agree with you.
I would very much doubt that, seeing as I've never heard of any significant leave campaign in any of these countries let alone any actual legislative move to do so.
Are you serious? You've never heard of, for example, France's national front party, who was the their largest party in the EU parliament, headed by Marine Le Pen, and wanted to leave the EU?
Eurosceptic movements were huge all across the union, particularly after the refugee crisis. It's only after Brexit that these movements have fizzled out.
I'm not saying that there aren't other eurosceptic, I just don't agree that they were at "the same level or higher" than in the UK.
As far as I'm aware, France has not left the EU indicating to me that euroscepticism in France has in fact never reached the same level as in the UK.
You should spend more time reading, and less time writing nonsense
As I stated, the UK ended up being the only one to leave because the others didn't hold referendums.
Your assertion that the UK being the only country to leave means it's the only country that was very Eurosceptic is deeply flawed.
If every country in the EU had held a referendum in 2016, more would've left. The UK wasn't unique in its views on the EU.
Cameron called for the referendum in an attempt to stamp out UKIP, who were weaponising the UK's stupid FPTP voting system. He reasoned that by calling a referendum and winning, UKIP support would collapse, those right wing voters would go back to voting Conservative, the right wing vote wouldn't be split, and they'd be able to stave off Labour, who wouldn't benefit from a splintered right wing vote.
I mean, it was a cheap throwaway comment but since personal impressions are apparently the most important discussion point today:
My personal opinion is that the very fact that the UK had a referendum and did leave makes their Euroscepticism more real than bad polling results the EU may have had in other countries where that did not happen.
Euroscepticism is still Euroscepticism, regardless of whether there was a referendum or not.
Just because you haven't heard about it, doesn't mean it's not the case, jeez pull your head out your arse. France had a leave referendum too, and the majority voted leave, but they had politicians who were smart enough to ignore the results.
Why, thank you for your polite way of providing missing information to others.
You certainly make participating in this community an enjoyable experience.
And their disposition is counter to the experience you provide with posts derived from your ignorance and myopic assumptions? Is it really enjoyable to see misinformed posts all day long?
I had inferred that from the post I replied to stating something that I had a different impression of. It's almost as if that was the very reason to reply in the first place.
To be derided for minor disagreements?
I suppose it must be. Otherwise the level of discourse here could be considered somewhat unfriendly
Challenging the myth that farmers voted for Brexit (and therefore deserve whatβs coming to themβ¦)
I lived in Sunderland at the time and the amount of brainless sentiment that was going around was huge. So I'm going to go ahead and say yeah actually a lot of the Nissan workers did vote for Brexit.
Quite possibly because they thought they were going to give the Tories a bloody nose but still they did vote for it.
What do Nissan workers have to do with this thread?
You might want to read the link you just posted
What does an article from a publication called West Country Voices entitled "Challenging the myth that farmers voted for Brexit (and therefore deserve whatβs coming to themβ¦)" have to do with Nissan workers?
Read the article you posted. It mentions Nissan workers along with farmers as groups that voted for Brexit and are now suffering the hubris of their own actions.
Also the article doesn't even demonstrate that farmers didn't vote for Brexit the one thing it claims to actually do, it does not do.
In the future when you're posting stuff to try and one up people it might be a good idea to actually read the content of the article first.
There is one sentence which makes passing reference to the stereotyping of various groups of people who Remain insists on blaming for its own mistakes. And you decided the only reasonable response was to reassure us that the stereotype was true for one of those groups, according to your inevitably limited experience of individuals you have encountered.
Astonishing.
So what I find utterly fascinating about this article is you posted it as if it was some kind of gotcha and it's just one person's opinion. There's absolutely no evidence provided and the whole article concludes by basically saying that there's no evidence for one belief or the other. So the ultimate conclusion to the article is that it could essentially not exist and everything would be exactly the same.
The thing is, what the author of this article never really bothered to address, possibly because it would undo his own argument, is why the belief that farmers voted in massive numbers ever came about. Apparently according to him it isn't even true so where did it come from?
Your position is not backed up by any evidence.
It's a discussion of the polls of farmers, which fluctuated a great deal above and below 50% support.
I posted it because Remain fucked up the campaign and now blames everyone but themselves. Which is exactly how and why they lost in the first place. Astonishing arrogance and spite.
Interesting piece.
A poll in early 2016, conducted by the University of Exeter, found that 46 per cent of the farmers they questioned said the interests of British agriculture would be best served by the UK remaining in the EU, while only 36 per cent indicated it would be better to leave.
Another poll a few days before the referendum vote found that 38 per cent wanted to remain, 34 per cent to leave and 28 per cent were undecided.
Two polls, one in December 2016 and one in December 2017, both with near identical results found that among the farmers who responded, 53 per cent voted to leave, 45 per cent voted to remain and 2 per cent did not vote.