113
Bitcoin briefly rises to record high over $70,000
(www.reuters.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
113 points (84.2% liked)
News
21706 readers
4312 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
but, like, bitcoin has high (and variable) transaction fees.
That's layer 1. Read up on layer 2 options. Lightning Network is the best current example, but there are others and will be more. That's where most of the innovation is happening now. The media never talks about it because it's necessarily more technical and they think their readers/viewers are all idiots, so why bother.
Or does the media never talk about it because the whole thing is confusing as fuck, there are about a bajillion different coins and no one knows which one to use, and there has yet to be an advantage (and often a big hurdle) to use any of these cyrptocurrencies to do things like buy a gallon of milk.
We hear a lot about how it's better than "fiat" currency, and yet if I want to go down to the gas station and get a soda, I can pay for that soda with exactly zero cryptocurrencies unless I convert them into dollars first.
Maybe if crypto people ever get their act together, and I don't see that happening any time soon, this will be more than people investing in digital tulips.
But hey, the local mall here has a Bitcoin ATM. In an entrance almost no one ever uses in a corner of the food court where there are no restaurants and you wouldn't even notice it unless you happened to walk past it and look at the front panel to see what it was (I only noticed it because my daughter is in online school and still has to do gym and we walk the perimeter of the mall in the winter). So there's that.
Also they love to act as though fiat isn’t backed by anything despite the fact that fiat is actually backed by something extremely important: you are required by law to use fiat for interactions with some of the most powerful organizations in the world. I can’t pay taxes in crypto or gold or even rubles, my government accepts usd and if I don’t hand them usd every year I get in trouble. When they pay me for any reason it’s in usd. When they fine me it’s in usd. That is a backing. So long as I have to financially deal with the governments of the United States I have to have appropriate quantities of usd. And because of all of this everything around me accepts that currency, even drug dealers take cash. Why? Because it’s the local currency. And it’s reasonably stable.
And on that note, I’d never spend a wildly inflationary currency. It’s not an effective currency and because of that it winds up being entirely theoretical.
I don't disagree with anything you said. Yes, it's confusing and there's no shortage of scammers trying to make it more confusing in order to bamboozle people.
My humble advice is to ignore "crypto". Adopt, at least for now, the philosophy that, "it's either Bitcoin, or shit coin." That'll simplify things immensely for those just getting started, and is true for at least 99.9% of other coins out there (100% if you want my honest opinion).
Maybe, in the distant future, when/if you decide to dive down the rabbit hole and really get comfortable how Bitcoin functions and what gives it value, then you'll be in a better position to judge other coins. More likely, you won't bother because you won't need to.
But, mark my words, nothing is going to replace Bitcoin. Some other coins might manage to fulfill some esoteric fringe use cases that Bitcoin doesn't, and maybe one those use cases will be beneficial to you. If so, awesome. But they're not going to be able to replace Bitcoin.
Layer 2 protocols are tools that operate on top of the (admittedly slow and variable) Bitcoin blockchain. Lightning Network (LN) is currently the most prominent and allows secure transactions that complete in a few seconds with extremely small fees. LN addresses the "it's too slow/unpredictable" argument against Bitcoin.
There are many other Layer 2 protocols running on top of Bitcoin in various stages of development and production addressing different issues and use cases. But, you don't need to know about any of them, honestly. You don't need to pick the winner (there will be many winners doing different things). When any of them catch on and go mainstream, then that will drive more demand for Bitcoin to help power that protocol.
I didn't miss out at something I was never interested in to begin with.
Also, I have no interest in helping you with your tulips.
Huh. Maybe this whole "fiat currency" thing isn't the worst idea then. I can get it out of my bank's ATM from the U.S. dollars in my checking account, they are accepted everywhere in the U.S. And the bank doesn't charge me anything.
Maybe you didn't comprehend the part where I said Bitcoin ATMs are a massive ripoff. I can buy any cryptocoin sitting on my couch at nearly 0% fees, versus the 5-10% the ATMs charge. Like the 2.5-5% fiat ATMs charge. Credit cards are also a massive rip off. Are you out here campaigning against fiat because fiat ATMs and credit cards are a massive rip off, and cash/gift card scams steal more than crypto scams?
The (current) lack of it is the only reason it's such a pain to get into.
But no worries, my entire back fence is littered with tulips of every color, I don't need any more 😉. I'll take a picture when I get home.
Cool. How can you buy a soda at the gas station with it?
Maybe, again, if there weren't a bajillion different cryptocurrencies that almost no one even understands how to use, there would be mass adoption. I have no idea why you expect mass adoption of something so confusing to happen first and then it gets less confusing. That's not how anything works.
You can use Coinbase or another similar intermediary to convert it to fiat instantly by using the card that comes with those services but still converting it to fiat isn't quite the same as using DOGE coin or the like to buy groceries and I do hear you on that. However , man personally I have made thousands off of crypto. I do like some projects for their utility like Monero and Litecoin but a large percentage of so called "alt" coins and stuff like that don't have any real utility beyond pumping so that's true and I feel like a lot of what makes crypto seem like a waste of time to people. But certain coins have real inherent value and use cases that are beyond what people like me and you probably need. Those use cases are still important to the people who need them though. El Salvador is a good example everyone shit all over that dude for doing mass adoption of bitcoinand for ainute there it did seem like a rough idea but it worked out. I guess that's the thing though everyone who has been in it from the beginning its because it keeps working out. Otherwise, everyone would be out of it and venture capitalist companies wouldn't be buying in the billions. I mean, would you listen to people of they told you something you were up like 700% on was a bad investment?
And plenty of other people have lost their shirts. This is gambling on tulips.
I knew a dude back in '07 who was real into stocks. Always trying to get me into it and always about it. Checking charts all the time. He ended up losing real bad and killed himself. What is your opinion on stocks?
My opinion is that I'm not a gambler and my goal in life is not to attain as much material wealth as possible.
But stocks are a respectable trade and Crypto isn't? I noticed you said people who make money on crypto are assholes, do you feel the same way for stockholders? Its just interesting that something you don't like affects every aspect of your life (stocks, and the influence they have on bigger businesses to flourish and add value to our economy). Imagine your world without stocks. That new phone and computer probably wouldn't be here, as a small example. Stocks are no different than Bitcoin other than one isn't connected to a country. But saying neither have value isn't telling the truth.
Please quote me saying that.
People who have their 401ks invested for them? No. People who play the stock market to get rich? Yes.
I have nothing but contempt for people whose goal it is to increase their material wealth through gambling. Especially the sort of gambling that will likely never really pay off unless you had plenty of wealth to begin with.
Material wealth as a goal is bad enough to begin with. Rich people making themselves richer by gambling their money on things like the stock market and cryptocurrency are not people I respect.
The products you consume and use on a daily basis (the proprietary chips in your phone and computer for example) only exist because they made money for shareholders. In other words if those rich people weren't making money on the stocks, the need for innovation would have never been to the point it is at now. And as far as the quote goes that was a question but I can quote where you said that dude avoided "being an asshole" for not making money in something you didn't like (bitcoin). Are you aware that business and free trade as a whole would be completely different without that same market that you hate? Why then call people assholes for investing in things? The venom just doesnt make sense. Also investing your 401K means requiring the services of these same rich folks you are against making money. Just doesn't make sense.
Yes, I've heard all that nonsense about how capitalism and rich people are essential for humanity's survival before.
The things I consume and use on a daily basis could be made by corporations owned by the people who work for them, not owned by people whose sole intent is to enrich themselves.
You know what capitalism and investment and the stock market has brought us? Planes that crash because stock buybacks are more important than safety.
Not for humanity, but for the new IPhone plus max 12K whatever the fuck comes out next, yes absolutely. And a worker owned factory would have never had the same level of innovation that the stock market has brought us here. Otherwise all the "worker owned" (lol) factories and countries wouldn't be trying to steal our shit all the time. The AI chips and all that shit would have never been, at least this soon, without making shareholders money. I hate it too dude I agree its fucked. But that plane you linked would still be a prototype in a military factory somewhere never seen by civillians if it hadn't been in a position to make tons of money to have it available to the public. I knwo that sucks dude, but that is the truth. To deny it is to lie to yourself. I will say that stocks serve a greater function than crypto there's no doubt to that. But to say one is a big scheme designed to fuck the little guy but the other one isn't is just false. So why can one be celebrated and welcomed by society (otherwise people sure wouldn't spend money on the new IPhone 12K whatever) and the other one people be called an asshole instantly if they think "man wouldn't it have been cool to have been in on that?"
Why would I give a shit about an unnecessary and wasteful new phone coming out? And why are you calling that innovation? What innovation?
Also, a huge amount of innovation, including the internet you're using right now, was government-funded.
It's a myth that capitalism is necessary for innovation.
You seem very invested (no pun intended) in the idea that gaining material things and money are what people should have as goals.
The phone thing directly affects competition in the proprietary chip market which affects the phone or laptop or other electronic device you are using to comment on here. The entire system and way of life you live is directly tied to the success of the stock market and in turn economy that system produces. And yes I am very invested in feeding my child, gotta have money to do that. I truly envy those who have never been homeless and have always had family and support to help them, maybe those people wouldn't understand the value of money the same way because they never had to steal for their food or starve. By the way, after I made this argument Bitcoin surpassed silver to become the 8th most valuable asset in the entire world. More than Coca Cola and Pepsi COMBINED. Being upset about it or wishing it didn't exist won't make it go away
"Capitalism isn't going anywhere, therefore it is a good thing" is a strange argument.
"Capitalism affects everything around me that I use daily" is the actual argument. And it does that through the stock market which you said yourself is like a gamble of money. But no, Bitcoin is the problem and everyone's just an asshole if they trade it or make money on it is what you had said to that dude. But not the hedge fund worker you give your 401K to?
I don't have a 401k. Why did you assume I had a 401k?
I can't yet unless I go to a couple smaller foreign mom and pop shops, lack of mass adoption.
A few are dominant already, one that's been dominant from the start but isn't the best yet although is improving. Do you worry about the value and exchange rates of every single mineral and resource, of which there are a bajillion? Or do you just follow maybe gold and silver, or do you only follow fiat, and not even invest it?
Edit: Since you down voted all of my discussion, I returned the favor.
I didn't downvote anything. That's a silly lie.
Monero (which is actually private like cash - sender, receiver, and amount aren't known to anyone viewing the blockchain) has transaction fees of a penny or two. It works by mixing every real transaction with 16 decoy transactions. Currently there are supposedly ways to track a small percentage of transactions but it's so secretive that only approved western government organizations are allowed access, but it doesn't work well and it only gives a statistical probability. And it's one of the wider used currencies current at $145 per coin.
The government hates not being able to track you.
Also BTC fees do suck but they vary. Most days they're around $1-$1.50 which isn't that far off from the $.50 charged (to businesses) by credit card processors.