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The Pact
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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Good deities don't intentionally cause pain and suffering and drag everyone down with them. There's nothing good about Satan.
Never heard of Satan causing any of those things. That's god's territory.
If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there's literally no redeeming qualities of Satan
Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that's barely scraping the old testament
Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?
We decided we'd die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn't even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.
You missed a very, very important keyword there: "deserved."
Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don't provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren't great.
Who defines what the "correct" effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.
God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn't he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off
Would you rather have free will or be a mindless slave to God?
So god cannot create a world with free will and without evil?
It won't be true free will, in that case, would it?
So god isnt all powerful is he? If he is omnipotent js change how reality works so that it can be true free will as well no bad in the world if hes omnipotent it should be easy for him
I thought it was common to believe that you had free will in paradise yet there be no evil. Which one is it you believe to be in paradise, free will or evil?
I think the official story is that people will eventually decide against evil, out of their own free will. That is how both things are achieved.
Huh. I don't recall being asked if I want to die
Do you want to follow Jesus who will give you eternal life?
That just sounds like extortion.
They complained they were never asked, lol, so I asked them
Follow Jebus if you don't want to die - is just extortion. Than again - old testament god was a bad boy himself, he would definitely approve, I mean he was really into murder.
It's a free gift
It's not free and not a gift.
Following Jesus is literally free. How is a free pardon for our crimes a gift?
I did not commit any crimes and don't have any sins, so there is nothing to forgive - and if so only people I wronged can forgive me. Also it's not free since it's coupled on a ton of conditions.
I doubt that you don't have any sins. Because we all do. What "conditions" concern you?
Sins is not a universal concept, it's a christian thing to make people feel bad about themselfs. Often just basic human experiences like lust are somehow defined as bad and than moral apostles like you claim everyone is a sinner.
Something is not free if you tie it in with conditions, I know you struggle with meanings of words an logic - but try to keep up.
Basically every religion has some idea of sin. It's atheism which tries and removes that by claiming objective morality doesn't exist, and that morality is merely just subjective and what people agree upon.
I asked you what conditions you were concerned about for salvation, and you didn't mention one but tried to demean me again as if I don't know what "conditions" mean.
Tell me more about sin in Buddhism.
That has nothing to do with atheism. All atheism does is stating that there is no god.
You might not like it, but that's how it is - animals are not concerned with morality, it's something we human came up with. Does not mean it's any less valuable than morality derived from magic creatures and imaginary friends.
You are the one who claimed it was free. I just said it had conditions and was therefore not free. I'm not concerned about conditions to beginn with since there is nothing I need salvation from.
Buddhists still believe in a universal moral code.
Ethnologist Christoph von Fürer-Haimendorf explained,
If there is no God, then there's no moral code, and no objective morality.
As for your final comment,
Ahh makes sense, you think that humans are evil and depraved - which is kind of telling on yourself. So maybe for you specifically it's cool that there is a book explaining that murder is bad. Most people just need a bit of empathy to get such a complex idea.
We are evil and depraved. Don't you see what we have done to this earth? And our moral compass has been ingrained in us since Eden. You don't need to be a Christian to have morals. We have them because it's true.
Babies too? Also unborn babies? Than again, since child cancer is a thing - evil babies might be a thing too. But I digress.
So tell me how are you evil and what is depraved about you?
The same any species without a natural predator would have done? It's more of an argument against human intelligence as it is for god.
Source: trust me bro I read it in an old fantasy book.
I am one of the most depraved and disgusting people I know. There's no redeeming qualities about me. That's why I thank God every day for saving me and forgiving me. He is the only one who can redeem me.
Seems about right.
Oh no I didn't mean I haven't been asked by mortals. Are you claiming to be God?
Why does the distinction matter? I can still help show you to freedom if you'd like.
I promise you don't have evidence that would sway me.