Nah, no need for this kind of gatekeeping. Anyone who deals with js and its billions of frameworks on a daily basis deserves to be called a developer.

[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 31 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Agreed.

We also deserve to be called, every so often, to see how we're doing.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 5 points 10 months ago

Heyyy its your super duper new project manager! I hope you are feeling a-mazing because you are my a-ce on the team. Anyways i need you to do things twice as fast, because we are running low on budget after sales promised another feature without extra billing and the CEO already signed off on it. Please make this happen somehow. If this project isn't succesfull i'll get fired and have to sell the house. But no pressure!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 18 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Do you even know why you hate PHP?

[–] Whelks_chance@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (4 children)

For me, it was this

https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-real-escape-string.php

[–] Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com 7 points 10 months ago

Note that that hasn't existed in PHP for years.

[–] dan@upvote.au 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Blame MySQL for that. The PHP API just mirrors the MySQL C API of the same name. https://dev.mysql.com/doc/c-api/8.0/en/mysql-real-escape-string.html

Modern PHP doesn't use it - any modern code uses PDO with prepared statements.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Never used it in over 23 years of using PHP. Also, I don't thing that has existed anymore for the past 10 years or so?

Seriously, if we're going to do this, can we also bitch about painful java apps from 10 years ago, or the hilariously shitty modules in node from 10 years ago? I can go on for a while, but you hopefully get the point.

[–] Whelks_chance@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The question was why do I hate it, and it was because of this. I don't understand your confusion.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 months ago

My confusion is that you hate it tosay because someone over a decade ago wrote 10 times the same complaint that was mostly fixed already since about a decade ago

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

yeah, i've used it and it's absolutely trash...
but here's an article that sums up my feelings: https://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

[–] dan@upvote.au 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That article is over a decade old. A lot of these issues aren't relevant any more or have been fixed. Some weren't even PHP issues, for example mysql_real_escape_string is a MySQL API (https://dev.mysql.com/doc/c-api/8.0/en/mysql-real-escape-string.html).

PHP isn't the best language, but it's not as bad as some people claim it to be, especially if you use a good framework like Laravel.

[+] xor@infosec.pub -6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

lol, no... it sucks
trust me, if you've already gotten used to php, you're smart enough to learn a better language.
really just use node if you're going that sorta route...

[–] darvit@lemmy.darvit.nl 3 points 10 months ago

Nice troll

[–] dan@upvote.au 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

JavaScript has a lot of the same issues as PHP. It doesn't have some of the same core library issues because it doesn't have a good core library.

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

ECMA 6 has had drastic improvements over the past js...
however node is still infinitely better than php, and since javascript is inexorably a part of web development, it's a lot more logical to use it on the backend too...

i don't mean that node is great, i mean that it's an easy transition from php, a billion times better, and much more modern and useful... so a very natural transition...

[–] dan@upvote.au 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

ECMA 6 has had drastic improvements over the past js…

Sure, but it still lacks basic built-in features. For example, why do maps and sets not have sort or filter methods? In Node, why is there no built-in way to connect to a database of any sort? Why can Node.js apps only use a single time zone? Requiring libraries for everything is not ideal as the libraries vary wildly in quality and they can end up either abandoned or containing malware (which has happened several times in the Node ecosystem).

still infinitely better than php

They each have their pros and cons, depending on use case. Node.js does some things better than PHP, but the opposite is true too.

You can build a whole PHP website without using any third-party libraries, and it'll work on any web host that supports PHP (literally any good web host that exists today). There's value in having that level of flexibility.
You can build a PHP site today and it'll mostly still be working (maybe with some minor changes) in 5 years, whereas for some of my Node.js sites I have to switch to an older version of Node just to build them. For example https://obviousspoilers.com/ has been practically untouched since 2009.
The fact that PHP can run multiple apps in the same FPM process means that you can run thousands of sites on a single server without issues. There's some non-Node solutions to this (like Cloudflare workers) but they're mostly proprietary at the moment.
There are more PHP than Node.js jobs, and far more sites use PHP. Wordpress uses PHP and powers over 40% of the web, so that means that at least 40% of all websites use PHP.

[–] xor@infosec.pub -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

wordpress does not power 40% of the web...
im not going to argue any more than that because this is a humorous type community, and ya'll are getting too serious.

i hope you enjoy all of your "programming" with your garbage little "language" and POS word🤢press🤮

p.s. notice how everyone who argues in favor of php and wordpress ONLY know that language and framework?
what a curious thing...

[–] dan@upvote.au 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

i hope you enjoy all of your "programming" with your garbage little "language" and POS word🤢press🤮

p.s. notice how everyone who argues in favor of php and wordpress ONLY know that language and framework?

lol I don't use PHP any more... I primarily use C#. I can still see the advantages of PHP without it being a language I use day-to-day.

wordpress does not power 40% of the web...

Do you have any data that proves otherwise? Because all available data I've seen disagrees with you.

https://wordpress.org/40-percent-of-web/

https://w3techs.com/technologies/details/cm-wordpress

It's not just small sites. A bunch of major publications use WordPress too. Forbes and TechCrunch both use WordPress for example.

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

lol

[–] dan@upvote.au 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

also downvotes aren't supposed to be used just because you disagree with someone's opinion. Your comments seem like a typical redditor so please just go back to Reddit if you're going to use downvotes that way.

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

i see you've switched troll tactics...

just chill the fuck out, do whatever you want with what programming language you want, and leave me alone, dan

dan

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

found a pic of you

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

oh and, adding a library isn't very hard

[–] dan@upvote.au 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Adding a third-party library in PHP is just as easy. The composer.json file looks very similar to a package.json.

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

i was responding to your comment about js not have a good core library...
php having libraries is completely moot

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That is literally a decade old article with basically 1 complaint that sometimes functions are strpos() and sometimes str_len(). Anything else it's saying is "I don't even know how to say it". Really now? Any of your complaints have been fixed since about a decade ago, so why don't you give it a try?

[–] xor@infosec.pub 0 points 10 months ago

lol, no...
also this is a joke sub so stop trying to sea lion me about it.
also your "summation" of the article is pretty stupid

[–] AlecSadler@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm a full-stack web developer and am involved all the way through including cloud infrastructure, API development, database creation/maintenance, test automation, architecture etc.

I guess what makes a "developer" in your context different? Embedded? Kernel?

[–] dabu@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Only those who code in the same language as I am can be called developers. Everyone else is just an impostor and their technology doesn't matter! Real programmers use my language of choice

[–] einsteinx2@programming.dev 1 points 10 months ago

Have you heard about our lord and savior Rust? 🙏

[–] DichotoDeezNutz@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

If you don't daily x86 assembly, do you even know anything about computers?

[–] scorpionix@feddit.de 9 points 10 months ago

Just like my $variables I can be anything I want. Deal with it! 🫳🎤

[–] astraeus@programming.dev 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

As if webapps aren’t usurping mobile and desktop apps, anything not C# or .NET is a toy language?

[–] xor@infosec.pub -4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

c# and .net? ewww....

gimme c, c++, go, rust, ruby, python...
and umm, no dude, native apps are a lot more powerful than web apps... they are not usurped at all

there's more of them, but there's more scooters than motorcycles...

[–] astraeus@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Scooters are more efficient, get you where you need to go and cost less to maintain. Your analogy is actually pretty good in that regard.

[+] xor@infosec.pub -9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

yeah and they only get you around the neighborhood, any actual distance and a motorcycle is infinitely better...
but, it figures you'd miss that, since you're a dumby dumbo mcpoopoo head webdev

[–] astraeus@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Now you’re throwing ad hominem around. You don’t need to be toxic to communicate your point, web development did at one point have a lot of growing to do and I can admit that there is still plenty of progress to be made. In 2024 however, ignoring the web ecosystem as any type of developer is purely traditionalist elitism.

[–] xor@infosec.pub -3 points 10 months ago

bruh, this is programming_humor... chill, im sure you're a fine human being

[–] anzo@programming.dev 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Please refrain of using offensive words, specially if you are trying to actually communicate an idea that is by all means demeaning to other people. The community is about humour, keep that in mind ;)

[–] xor@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

word, "dumb ass" was supposed to be a joke too, but i edited it to be less offensive

[–] metaballism@slrpnk.net 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So if I'm using Rust to write a web app that compiles to WebAsm, what am I?

[–] xor@infosec.pub -2 points 10 months ago

a dingo

[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

To be fair, we do develop stuff. Nothing implies quality, so it’s not like we’re misrepresenting anything. Personally, anyone who calls themselves a software engineer and works with any web-related technology (PHP, JavaScript, etc) are the ones to be shunned.

[–] weevai@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

🖕

[–] xor@infosec.pub 3 points 10 months ago

sorry, my browser doesn't support unicode