this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2024
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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 73 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

In a statement to the publication, Signal president Meredith Whittaker says, “Our privacy standards are extremely high and not only will we not lower them, we want to keep raising them. Currently, working with Facebook Messenger, iMessage, WhatsApp, or even a Matrix service would mean a deterioration of our data protection standards.”

Ugh, okay Meredith, let's pretend it's impossible to handle this with user experience that makes the user acknowledge their conversation with a WhatsApp user is not secure. Meanwhile if the only viable way for this conversion to occur is to have WhatsApp on both ends, the situation less secure. So according to Meredith, the choice is between less overall security or not having conversations with people who don't use Signal. That could makes sense for her salary but it surely is a net negative for Signal users some of which will have to install WhatsApp since they won't be able to afford not to have those conversations.

[–] PreciousPig@lemmy.world 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's the same argument they used when ditching SMS-support ☹️

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not nearly as salty about SMS because of the following differences from the WhatsApp scenario. Signal-SMS was only supported on Android, call it half of Signal users whereas a potential WhatsApp integration (or lack thereof) would affect nearly all Signal users. Then the Android users who have to reach others over SMS already have a built-in system app that does this, so they don't have to install third party app that exists to vacuum data. So the downgrade for the Android Signal user is in ease of use, not in overall security.

[–] htrayl@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Except most people are not going to tolerate having a multiplicity of apps, and if people in your circle don't already use signal, they definitely won't now. Whereas previously, I was getting pretty decent traction from people slowly adding it.

[–] Takumidesh@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

In the modern age, it's getting easier to hard-line your messaging platform though.

If people are already used to having multiple messaging clients for multiple people, it's less of a jump to add one more.

[–] FrostyTrichs@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

This has been my experience as well. In the past friends and family were more reluctant to break away from whatever their default communication app was. These days most people are already familiar with the idea of using one thing to text, another to "message", and often more than that. I've had great success converting people to more secure platforms now that they understand the process.

[–] RmDebArc_5@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Don’t the built in system apps also vacuum data?

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 13 points 10 months ago

This is Lemmy. Here we believe everything vacuums data!

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The built-in apps get and send SMS from a system service on Android. In nearly every case the system app is from the same vendor as the system itself which means there's no significant opportunity for data disclosure that doesn't already exist within the system. If anything , the system has much larger opportunity to vacuum data. Therefore if you don't trust the system SMS app, you shouldn't trust the system either. If you trust the system, you can probably trust the system SMS app too. Third party SMS apps present net additional opportunity for data disclosure so one has to trust the one they use doesn't vacuum data.

[–] ytorf@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

a net negative for Signal users some of which will have to install WhatsApp since they won't be able to afford not to have those conversations.

I just had to do exactly this for a little league group 😭

[–] Durandal@lemmy.today 15 points 10 months ago

Yeah we’re like super serious about privacy so we require you to make you’re account based on a unique, hard to change, personally identifiable, insecure data point and require you to show it to everyone you talk to. The fact that they’re only now starting to test hiding your phone number is beyond asinine. Any arguments signal has about security I might listen to but their concept of privacy is laughable.

[–] mryessir@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 10 months ago

Ugh, okay Meredith, let's pretend it's impossible to handle this with user experience that makes the user acknowledge their conversation with a WhatsApp user is not secure. Meanwhile if the only viable way for this conversion to occur is to have WhatsApp on both ends, the situation less secure.

It is a privacy concern, not a security one.

So according to Meredith, the choice is between less overall security or not having conversations with people who don't use Signal.

Could you cite this please? Because I do not see this beeing said or implied.

That could makes sense for her salary but it surely is a net negative for Signal users some of which will have to install WhatsApp since they won't be able to afford not to have those conversations.

Entirley different conversation, accusations and projections. So dropping this.

[–] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 10 months ago

It's doable we are not in the kindergarten and school groups we might miss a few things but worked so fast for us. And I convinced both my job teams to use Signal

[–] zecg@lemmy.world -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ugh, okay Meredith, let's pretend it's impossible to handle this with user experience that makes the user acknowledge their conversation with a WhatsApp user is not secure. Meanwhile if the only viable way for this conversion to occur is to have WhatsApp on both ends, the situation less secure.

I don't agree with this. The only way to have the conversation is to have Signal at both ends.

[–] ben_dover@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

while i see where you're coming from, being able to message WhatsApp users from a client app that respects privacy would be better than being forced to have WhatsApp installed on your device, with it snooping casually on your everyday device usage and your contact list and so on.

WhatsApp is the only Facebook app on my phone and i'd love to get rid of it without losing the ability to message all those buffons using it (which make up for 99% of my social circle)

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago

BTW, you can somewhat mitigate the spyware by using Shelter.

[–] zecg@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

while i see where you're coming from, being able to message WhatsApp users from a client app that respects privacy would be better than being forced to have WhatsApp installed on your device

Who's forcing you? I removed everything Zuckerberg and just informed people I use only Signal now. I had to help my parents a bit with the install and the pin, younger than 70s did it themselves. I found that, if you have a reason for boycotting, people will just give you a hundred MB of their phone space and install Signal along with whatsapp

[–] Dariusmiles2123@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago

Exactly. Let us choose if we want to interact with WhatsApp or not.

I’d be ready to sacrifice some security in order to not have WhatsApp installed on my phone.

Of course it would be cool to just get rid of WhatsApp but I can’t force my whole basketball team to go on Threema..