this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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[–] BoxedFenders@hexbear.net 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Keep "Voting Blue No Matter Who" and watch as every promise they ran on vanish without a fight because YOU have taken away any incentive to.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Here's the thing. There's a big brigade thing going on right now where I'm apparently the worst human who's ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question--it's just "you're stupid because Biden" and that's the end of it. So, I'm really asking--what is the proposed alternative action?

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

If you want an actual answer, the most peaceful possible solution at this juncture is communist revolution.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism. The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism

jesse-wtf

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I'll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's not true, and it shows that you obviously haven't investigated those revolutions or the theory behind them.

The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

Yes. This issue is dealt with through communist theory. A revolution is a process. It doesn't end at a "change of regime."

Its true that class and money are not immediately abolished, because they can't be immediately abolished. The abolition of class and momey is a theoretical endpoint of a long period of transition because

The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.

More or less as you put it.

You are saying that because the process isn't automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin

You should investigate the actual revolutions you're talking about, and read some of the basic theories behind them. If you are still against them, then at lesst you will actually know what you're talking about, and your critiques would be worth hearing

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin

No, I'm saying that it hasn't happened yet because humans as a whole aren't ready for it. Maybe in 150-200 years we'll be in a different place. Remember that when people said "Please wear a mask, my grandmother has cancer" about 50% of the populace yelled "FUCK YOUR GRANDMOTHER MY LIBERTIES ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER." With people like that, you can't really have communism.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

No, I'm saying that it hasn't happened yet because humans as a whole aren't ready for it.

Which is what you're wrong about, because there are nations right now engaged in revolution. The largest nation in earth is currently involved in the most successful revolutionary project yet, which began back in 1949.

You're not wrong that the revolutionary potential in the imperial core is low for a number of factors. But that's not the world.

You also said

each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a communist revolution

Which is not true and was more what i was talking about.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I guess I’m saying that Lenin, Mao, and Castro were after the power grab and dressed it up in the clothing of communism.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum

If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista's regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it's puppet states.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I already knew you were saying that. You're wrong. If you want to talk about communism, you should investigate it first because you don't know what you're talking about

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Such a missed opportunity. You could have used the chance to persuade me but instead decided to go ad hominem and make it personal.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 19 points 6 months ago (1 children)

michael-laugh theres no personal attack in anything i said. You just don't know what you're talking about in terms of any of thise revolutions. Seems like you don't even know what the internets favorite logic nerd term means either

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (3 children)

“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”

That’s the part that makes it personal. Notable that you’ve still offered nothing in the way of your perceived correction. It stops at “you’re wrong” as if that were how conversations operate. If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”

That’s the part that makes it personal.

That's not a personal attack. A personal attack would be saying your a dumb reddit-brained smuglord. And an ad hominem would be saying you're wrong because youre a dumb reddit-brained smuglord.

I didnt stop at saying your wrong. I said you should investigate the people and revolutions you're talking about, because if you did investigate you would know you're wrong. That's why i said you don't know what you're talking about, because no one could have actually read about the 1917 revolution, the Chinese Revolution, or the Cuban revolution and think that they are not communist revolutions, or just "dressed up in the clothes of communism"

If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?

If you believe you're right, why aren't you trying to convincing me? michael-laugh

You're the one who made an assertion that is obvioulsy untrue to anyone who knows about those subjects. You made these obviously false assertions without any evidence whatsoever, but somehow the burden of proof for what you said is on me.

[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 11 points 6 months ago

Shapiro voice: You replied with a picture. That's not how conversations work. If you believe you are right, why not try to convince me instead?

[–] manuallybreathing@hexbear.net 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung OPPOSE BOOK WORSHIP

May 1930 I. NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won' t do!

It won't do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm

[–] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 19 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

No investigation, no right to speak. Do some self-crit + reading or shut the fuck up.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Nah. This is a circle jerk. I say a thing and then the reactionaries descend to tell me that I’m wrong. Yet nobody has anything to offer beyond “you’re stupid”.

[–] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 15 points 6 months ago (2 children)

A group of better educated people are telling me I’m wrong, clearly they are just reactionaries.

What a beautiful mind you possess.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

>I'll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.

I'll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a banning, but rather a group responsible for userbase change using the term as they appoint a new banned user.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

che-smile even more satisfying after he called us all "reactionaries"

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What are you doing to educate me? What have I learned here other than that a difference in thought offends you?

[–] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 15 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I’m not trying to, the only thing that can make a person learn is if they actually want to. No point in leading a horse to water.

In the mean time I’ll have some fun.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The fun for you really is the ability to tell others they are wrong. Then you’re not willing to help others learn things you think should. You must be great at parties.

I’m out.

[–] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oh, you must have missed my comment then. Here you go:

During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum

If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista's regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it's puppet states.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Oh, you must have missed my comment then

Its interesting how they always seem to miss a comment that is providing what they claim to want. Hmmmmmm

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Mao literally wearing the "Mao Suit" everywhere, just like a Communist Poser.

[–] Vingst@hexbear.net 7 points 6 months ago

If you just want power you dont have to pretend to be socialist. See Pinochet, among many examples. Pretending to be socialist would just be unnecessary extra work and having the most powerful countries as enemies instead of friends.

[–] Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 2 points 6 months ago

even liberal and conservative historians agree that the damn commies were actual communists: behind closed doors they didn't talk about machiavellian power grabs - they used the same historical materialist framework they would use in public. (for example Kotkin is adamant about this in his Stalin bio. Communists believed in communism. Shocker.)

[–] voight@hexbear.net 16 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You're not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don't have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.

Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn't vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?

Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.

Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he's an isolationist or something, but that's complete nonsense, he's the one who murdered Gen Soleimani

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I still don't get what you really want to argue for, though. Is it just to not participate until better candidates come around?

And, having in excess of 15 comments insulting my person in one thread is being brigaded.

[–] voight@hexbear.net 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).

I don't think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn't enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago

Thanks, that take makes sense. Now I wonder if that is the base from which many are operating?

[–] voight@hexbear.net 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago

This is why I don't participate in Pride. It's all corporate bullshit.