245
Neither Hamas nor Israel should rule Gaza in future, EU says
(euobserver.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
245 points (95.5% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
11 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, ๐ฉ๐ช ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
It should've been Egypt, but they don't want to.
I don't think they have the capabilities is my guess. It's understandable they don't want to, it's gonna be dangerous af. Politically speaking a UN Occupation and Peace Force would be the best way forward. Best from a country that is far away. China is not a bad contender. They have the resources and could gain valuable trade posts as well as prove their value as a world power they so desperately want to be. Philippines might also not be a bad choice they already have experience in UN Missions in Africa. Other choices could be a lot of states that have no geographical connection and don't belong to the "west" to avoid it seeming like some (post) imperialistic occupation.
Israel would probably be fine with Egypt but there's not much love left between Egyptians and Palestinians, and Egypt has its own shit to deal with in more than one way. The US is problematic for the same kind of reason: Palestinian distrust.
What could actually work is Germany, or more generally speaking a EU contingent under German command: Europe provides just over 50% of the total aid to Palestine and Palestinians know that, 20% from Arab countries, 11% from the US. (Providing aid to Palestinians is our favourite way to tell Israel's right wing to fucking cut it out).
All that hinges on Netanyahu and his Kahanites getting ousted, though, there can't be anything benefitting a peace process while von Papen and his fascists are in power as their power depends on conflict. Poll-wise it's looking good.
Why would Germany and the EU ever agree to this? What they get is an impossible mission in a deeply troubled area and all the blame for every ill that will ever befall it in the future.
Other countries might want to keep out of it but peace in the near east is right there at the very top of German national interest. As in: The safety of Israel is most easily achieved if you keep the IDF out of Gaza and the West Bank.
What happens when Islamic Jihad shoves rifles into the hands of 15-year olds and points them at the Germans? When the images of dead kids are posted all over the net? Will that be in the German National Interest? Or when Netanyahu slips in a couple of hundred armed settlers? Will the Germans evict those Jews by force? Will that event be in the German National Interest?
If everyone in Israel and Palestine could be relied upon to act rationally and in good faith, such a mission could be a tremendous success, I agree. But if everyone in Israel and Palestine could be relied upon to act rationally and in good faith, it wouldn't be needed.
The last time that kind of thing happened it looked like this. tl;dr: It's better to come clean proactively because ultimately the Bundeswehr leaks like a sieve in these kinds of matters, which is a good thing.
The question for the public at large will be "is this cleaner than the IDF doing things" and the answer is invariably yes: Even if the IDF was a troop of angels there's a fuckton of baggage making it impossible for Gazans to see them as protectors.
None of this will happen with Netanyahu and his fascists still in power. I believe that's the third time I'm saying that now.
Plenty of Israelis went into Gaza all the time without any issues, btw. Figures that Palestinians can tell Smolanim and Kahanites apart.
That's a police matter. Palestine has every right in the world to deport illegal immigrants.
European Forces occupying the middle east gives of hard imperialistic taste. Also seeing how the EU and Germany are so close to the US militarily this could just be seen again as a western power struggle where US proxies are put in place. No what is needed is a country that is non aligned to neither the west nor the middle east.
It's like 400km from the nearest EU state to Gaza, running a ferry line from Limassol not just to Ashod but also Gaza would be trivial, the whole of the EU is a post-imperial project, tons of Palestinians live in the EU and will be more than willing to help building up the region and you want to bring in, who, the Chinese?
Who, the Philippines? Europe isn't a proxy of the US.
As to "neutrality": Europe has way better relations with the Arab and Muslim world than the US, they know where we stand on issues such as settlements. You could just as well see it as a wedge to get the US out of the region. Remember when Trump proposed making Jerusalem the capital of Israel?
German and Jews , again? Noooo
I imagine that it'll be a political mess for whoever winds up with it.
Whoever administers the Gaza strip, has to be neutral, or at least acceptable to the government of Israel. Egypt has a complex history with the government of Israel, and Israel probably doesn't want Egyptian listening posts inside of their territory.
Egypt warned Israel about this attack. Egypt is not an enemy of Israel and hasn't been for a long time. Also >inside of their territory. Since when is Gaza part of Israel's territory?? Pretty biased language there.
They control the territory militarily, it's defacto Israeli territory. I don't wish it to be so, but it is.
From a Military perspective intentions don't matter, only capabilities. Egypt is a theater competitor, it would be foolish to give them more military capabilities.
Oh I didn't know the Golan Heights were basically Austrian Territory when they controlled during their UN Mandate. See how stupid that sounds? If a peace force would move in the IDF would obviously not be in military control anymore there.
A theater competitor for what theater? The Yom Kippur War was 50 years ago.
The Austrians would be foolish not to collect intelligence where their troops were deployed. It's about capabilities. A military presence is a risk, and it's part of the political calculus.
I'm happy to debate with you but I ask that you not make personal attacks (calling me stupid) when we both have useful perspectives to contribute to the conversation.
At least Egypt doesn't officially deny the Israel's right to exist. That's good enough.
Not really good enough.
Inside of the borders of Israel, they are going to have security concerns, and they are not going to want foreign militaries to collect intelligence, to base weapons, to put them in a strategic disadvantage.
If the UN is going to police the area, there's going to be a long negotiation with Israel to determine which countries they find "acceptable" to be the peacekeeping force.
Maybe a joint international task group, UN backed?
Either that or Portugal
Wow straight to defending the abuser...ok.
I'm not making any pro apartheid or pro-colonial statements, I'm trying to illustrate a political and military calculus that would be used if peacekeeping forces were to be deployed.