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Neither Hamas nor Israel should rule Gaza in future, EU says
(euobserver.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
245 points (95.5% liked)
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Changing the guards of a prison, doesn't make it less a prison. There needs to be economic trade, economic development, a path to prosperity for people to believe in so they stop investing in the past.
As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.
For that to happen all illegal settlements would need to be dismantled though.
Or we need the formation af a new state that includes all territories, gives equal rights to arabs and jews and returns as much land as possible to displaced palestinians as well as compensates them properly. Also all terrirorists, that means also all settler terrorists need to be tried and convicted for their atrocities. For that i think it would be best do these trials at the ICC and provide prison facilities in Europe for the pre trial and post trial imprisonment of terrorists.
If Palestinians are given a real perspective and some justice i think it could work out. It would require the current terrorists and corrupt criminals in both governments to be removed from power though. So Bibi and Abbas will fight it tooth and nails.
As an intermediate step we would probably need a new UN mandate and lots of pressure to make Israels apartheid government step down.
This is only true if you agree with the opposite as well: As long as Israel is entirely surrounded by Arab League or countries doing their bidding, it will remain a fortress under siege, unless the Arab world goes through serious reform and atops being brutal opressive regimes.
Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.
You do realize that Israel has access to the Mediterranian and Egypt is factually an ally of Israel since decades now? Also Israel has functional airports. Israel has free access to move goods by air, sea and partially by land and for people to travel by air, land and sea. I find Israeli products in supermarkets in Europe, from household appliances to produce.
I fail to see, what point you are trying to make. The situation in Israel is nothing like the situation in Gaza.
Ah yes Egypt, Israel's best friend! Just like Pakistan and India, Greece and Turkey or Argentina and UK. Just because they signed a peace deal, it doesn't mean they are allies. The following day, after the Hamas attacks, an Egyptian police officer shot at Israeli tourists in Alexandria and killed two Israelis and their Egyptian guide. Anti-Semitism is rife in the region.
Just because Israelis can fly or use the ports, doesn't mean that they are not under constant dread - my analysis still stands.
The day Israel declared independence Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and volunteer corps from the Arab League ("Holy war army" and "Arab libertarian army" which had an insignia of the star of David with a dagger piercing it) attacked. This was fresh after Palestinian leaders met with Hitler in 1941 and the holocaust. They also saw that all the other neighbouring countries that declared independence in the region, including the ones from historical Palestine who took land from the Palestinian people, like Lebanon, Syria and Transjordan never got attacked or criticised. From Israel's point of view it was because they are Jews and the Arabs want another holocaust.
I would love to see the settlements in the West Bank dissolved, but it will never happen while the Arab (and Persian) world is still very much antisemitic and wants all the Israelis dead or "gone". The West Bank and Golan Heights offer strategic depth and security to Israel, and they will never leave. And they are willing to become the next North Korea if they have to, but at least they will be alive.
Now you don't have to agree with any of this. But those are "facts" for the Israelis. For them it's an existential crisis. The only way to reform Israel is also to reform the Arab world. Otherwise it's just a race to the bottom - both sides will elect more and more extremists.
No it doesnt. It is more the fact, that Egypt receives generous military aid from the US for continued cooperation and works together with Israel on many issues, such as control of the Rafah crossing into Gaza.
And German policemen regularly are caught making "jokes" about the holocaust, celebrating Hitlers birthday and other typical Nazi shit. Still Germany as a state considers itself an ally of Israel and works together with Israel as closely as possible.
So 75 years ago. Again taking Germany as an example, by this logic mere six years ago, Germany was practically still Hitler.
Many Arab countries including Saudi Arabia have been looking to strengthen ties with Israel recently. Before Yitzhak Rabin was murdered in 1995 by a member of the same extremist-right ideology that is now governing Israel, there was great progress made towards finding a peaceful solution. It was the same right wing extremism, stemming from Israel that sabotaged a peaceful solution back than and continues to sabotage a peaceful solution now in favor of more violence and more crimes against the Palestinians.
And to show just how fucked in the head Likud was back then and is today even more so, they depicted Rabin as Hitler in their protests against the Oslo accords. Israel has the power to bring peace, if they had any interest. But they choose to let nationalists and fascists govern and commit the most heinous crimes.
100%. A upvote is simply not enough!
Yeah, but you shouldn't release people before they're re-socialized either. Gaza needs an occupying force for the same reason my home country needed one in 1945: Way too many fascist in the population.
Some some survey data:
53% approval rate for Hamas in 2019, .
In a survey this summer 70% of Palestinians were against a two-state solution and a majority of favor of an "armed struggle"
And of course there's the fact that 2013 at least 59% of Palestinians were in favor of executing apostates (i.e. murdering people who cease to be Muslim).
That said, of course there needs to be a positive economic development. Just like there was in Germany under occupation.
Don't compare Palestine to Germany, compare them to Poland or France. Or another occupied country in WW2.
Do you think they would support armed resistance or the partisans fighting the Nazis? That's what Palestinians believe. Israel has invaded their land.
That's part of why the comparison works so well. Large German speaking regions had ended up in other countries (e.g. Poland, France) after the German empire lost WW1 (which Germany and Austria started). That's akin to Palestinian regions ending up under Israeli occupation after the 1947 and 1967 wars of aggression against Israel.
Hamas terrorists aren't resistance fighters. They're just as bad as the SS. They use a perceived slight against their people to justify murdering children. Fortunately this time the balance of power is different.
That's idea I guess: why take the responsability if not to make changes? Would be senseless otherwise.