this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
63 points (98.5% liked)

Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

5044 readers
509 users here now

Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world. About 1C of total warming. Second chart: about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability. Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases. About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
silence7@slrpnk.net
63
Land of the free, home of the inefficient: appliance standards as culture war target (www.npr.org)
submitted 9 months ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/climate@slrpnk.net
23 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

From ceiling fans to refrigerators, the Department of Energy is updating appliance efficiency standards that would affect millions of consumers.

The Biden administration's goal is to reduce climate-warming greenhouse gasses and save Americans billions of dollars a year in utility costs. But the administration is facing pushback from the natural gas industry, because some new standards would affect gas appliances. Conservative politicians and media have taken notice of the measures, too, and they've now made unsexy, technical appliance standards a flashpoint in the country's culture war.

top 23 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As someone that is in the process of buying a new home and looking for efficient appliances for the specific purpose of lowering utility bills, I really appreciate the DoE's energy standards. I especially appreciate that energy start certified appliances are consolidated here for browsing. It has so far helped me choose a washer and dryer. Similarly, the EPA's WaterSense program is helpful because I live in the southwest, which is a desert. Water rationing is inevitable, and I'd like to get ahead of the game.

So, it's funny to me that efficiency standards are a culture war target. Consumers opposing these standards are basically arguing for their own exploitation by utility and gas companies.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works -5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Consumers opposing these standards are basically arguing for their own exploitation by utility and gas companies.

Not necessarily. The modern washing machines, dryers, and dishwashers that I've used are really slow. They take several times longer than what I'm accustomed to. I don't think the money saved on electricity and water justifies that much extra time, especially since the cost of running these appliances was already relatively low. It's bad enough IMO that if I were getting these appliances, I would prefer used, older ones to new ones.

[–] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The modern washing machines, dryers, and dishwashers that I’ve used are really slow.

You must be more attentive to your appliances than me. I forget about them all the time. So the increased time will barely be noticeable to me.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Note that this isn't a small increase - the new machines take two or three times as long to run as the old ones do. I suppose it won't be an issue for you if you always do these chores in advance, but I often end up doing more than one load of laundry or running the dishwasher because I need clean dishes right away.

[–] silence7@slrpnk.net 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think I've seen those huge increases except on appliances with greatly increased capacity as compared with the old ones. I don't think it's a big deal either; you set up a washing machine or a dishwasher, and then you go do something else. Almost nobody sits around babysitting their washing machine or dishwasher.

I'll also note that the appliances also have a 'speed' cycle which runs fast for those rare occasions when you need it.

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

When we replaced our dishwasher a couple of years ago, the "normal" cycle's run time went from 45 min to 2.5 hours. The shortest cycle on the new washer is 1.5 hours. Previously, we also never had to clean out any kind of filter at the bottom of the washer, but on the new one we do because most brands no longer come with any kind of grinder built in. On the other hand, our new washer uses half the water and half the electricity and is silent, like if it wasn't for the light it shines on the floor, i would have to open it to make sure it is running versus our old washer that drowned out the tv. But, most importantly, our new washer gets the dishes incredibly clean in one cycle, vs the old one that would often require 2 cycles or that you pre-rinse the dishes.

[–] guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.works 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I don't understand how anyone is supposed to resent appliance companies for reducing their power bills. Like, for real? You prefer it when you spend 5x as much to accomplish the exact same goal? Does it make you feel like you're not as broke as you really are when you spend all this money subsidizing your electrical company/natural gas company/gas companies, etc? Is that what it's about? Irrationally minimizing utility as a form of patriotic action, and what's more, doing this in a globalized capitalist marketplace?

Begging conservatives to, what's the phrase again? Take an economics class?

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah but the libruls said to do it, and libruls are cringe and not based. Or something.

[–] guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well, it's awful hard to stay on the side of progress and economic development when the social system you stand for lost the ability to deliver either over 100 years ago.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago

I remember reading about a man who actively understood/acknowledged that Trump was a liar and a criminal, but continued to vote for him because it felt good.

When for everyone one person that wants progress there is another that actively goes against them, and cannot or will not listen to reason; yes it is difficult to stay on the side of progress.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

gas stove lobby !

get an induction plate people!

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I have an induction hotplate and for anything other than boiling water - which it's great at - I don't like it.

There are probably other ones but the fact that I can't test drive stoves before I drop a couple grand on it makes me leery of them. I don't want to burn every pot of rice on my new stove.

[–] silence7@slrpnk.net 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Huh? Induction hot plates are absolutely amazing for frying on cast iron, particularly if you get one with a thermostat so you can control temperature.

And no, you wont' burn every pot of rice; they've got heat settings, and you'll end up simmering rice the same way you did on your previous stove.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

somehow, top french chefs cook over induction. maybe they don't cook rice ? idk :/

[–] silence7@slrpnk.net 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You can just set an induction stove to a low power setting and it won't burn the rice. Pretty much like you cook on any other stove.

If you set it to a high power setting, you can in fact burn it.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago

i dont want to pretend that i own a magnet plate (yet) but i assume each should burner should be equipped with some sensor that detects when the cookware is absent and thus lower the energing powering the coil/capacitors, just enough to quick resume of food heating, and thus ensure smooth temp transition and homogenous cooking

[–] PrunesMakeYouPoop@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I'm not a fan of induction cooktops that turn off when you lift up the pan. I was cooking soft scrambled eggs at my aunt's house and kept having to turn the stove back on every time I lifted up the skillet for more than about 3 seconds. It was super frustrating.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago

maybe its a design shortcoming: maybe the capacitors or the circuit inside need to stay half energized for exemple to allow you quick resume of your cooking.. i think its better to give makers some leeway and let them know of your feedback in order to improve such devices.

[–] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Thanks for letting me know that's something I should look out for

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's that sort of stuff that worries me. I know that induction can be as good or even better than gas, but too much of that relies on the engineering and design of the induction system and electronics. And that's the sort of stuff appliance makers will cheap out on to make a buck.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

well, this for instance could be a selling point for premium brands, and with enough competition, even average brands will be compelled to adress this too. just give the free market some time to catch up 😭

i didn't downvote you btw ..

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I hope you're right, and it would happen a lot faster if we were able to test drive the stoves first. Then I wouldn't end up giving my money to people who can't make a decent stove.

The neat thing about Kbin is I don't see the downvotes. I'm at +2 and that's enough for me.

[–] iraq_lobster@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

lol

i hope i am too. i am not sure why would an induction plate would cost you 2k (€ ?) where i live a 4 cooker induction plate is about 233€, and single cooker ones are 70€, and they are always out of stock..i dont know maybe its due to the gas stove lobby! nonetheless, voicing one's cocncern to manufacturers would help improve said product.