data from Edmunds says a record 17.5% of borrowers have payments of $1,000 or more
That is a crazy high number. You are approaching mortgage territory there (yes, mortgages can be that price outside of cities). People need to stop spending so much on cars. They do not retain value.
While I agree cars themselves are just insanely expensive. A $25k car has you at $450+/month and this is if you have excellent credit.
We need other options besides cars and unfortunately they're the only option for many people.
People choose $80k cars on 5-7 year notes because “they can afford the payment” thinking that means they can afford the car.
My mortgage is that price inside a major city. Quite a few cars today -- and not just hypercars or ultra-luxury ones, either -- are approaching the same price I paid in 2009 for an entire 3-bedroom house. That's just pants-on-head crazy!
i'm really not sure why so many people worry about the value of a car. it's not some super-expensive, incredibly rare car. most are average commuter vehicles. they're a tool. buy them, use them, keep them until they're wore out, and repeat the process.
i never really had a problem with car debt. i currently am driving a Cadillac Escalade with 430k miles on it. i bought it 7 years ago with 160k on the odometer, for $12k. it's been a fantastic vehicle. no telling how much money that truck has made me over the years. it was a replacement for my beat up Tahoe that had about 325k on it when i traded it in.
270k miles in 7 years‽ Unless you're a contractor or something and it's part of your job, you drive way too fucking much.
Well, yeah, when people are spending $30K-$80K on a car, they're likely gonna miss payments eventually. The car market, including used cars, has been over-inflated for years.
We had a 2003 Honda Element that we bought in 2008 for $8000. It had less than 50,000 miles on it. We saw that same exact model in a car lot this year, with over 150,000 miles and they were selling it for $10,000. Over 15 years later and over 100,000 miles more on it and it's selling for more. There is a serious problem with the car market right now.
Honda Element isn't the best car to illustrate overall inflation. They're kind of in trend right now, so the price is higher than similar cars of same era/mileage.
Wtf, Honda elements are trendy? We used to rag on my friends element because it was like half plastic. Can't imagine that has aged well.
I'm in Austin, TX. It BAFFLES me how many folks own these huge trucks and SUVs. My wife and I bought a used Ford Fiesta for $12k, payments are about $225. Even that's tough to swing sometimes. Still, it's been worth it for the gas mileage alone. Currently sitting at about 34mpg. I can't imagine what some of those huge trucks get. Not to mention that I don't understand how they're practical to drive much of anywhere in. Just so damn huge and unwieldy. I'm happy with my tiny car. Would be happier with a train.
My buddy was just bragging to me how he just bought a brand new Sequoia with all the bells and whistles and only had to do was take out the equity on his home and he paid cash for the whole thing... Somehow I couldn't get him to understand how fucking stupid it was to take the equity out of his home to buy a fucking fancy car.
“All I had do to was take money out of the thing that appreciates and put it into the thing that immediately depreciates 20% after I drive it off the lot!”
*depreciates 20% the moment the money changed its owner. Another 20% when you get the key and another 20% when you use the key for the first time to unlock it
My accountant does that because home mortgage interest is tax deductible and car interest is not. But he can afford his luxury car.
34mpg is 6.92l per 100km in non savage units.
Americans are falling behind.
FTFY.
I was shocked... My wife totalled my car 3 weeks ago. It was a 2013, but it was paid for.
I was COMPLETELY unprepared to go shopping for a car and I'm really not interested in having a car payment again.
So $12,000 down thanks to the insurance payment, even financing a small amount through my credit union and having an 800 credit score was getting rates in the 7-8% range. I saw some silliness and nonsense of 12.25%. On a CAR loan.
Called in some markers so I'll be able to pay the rest in cash.
My current car is 14 years old and fully paid off, but likely won't survive for much longer. I really want an electric car, but the prices on these are beyond what I can afford. So I looked at hybrid cars and even these were going to be extremely pricey. Finally, I looked at some regular gas cars, but even those would stretch my budget to the breaking point.
If my current car goes, I'll need to buy another one, but I'm not sure how I'll afford it.
Yeah, we're going to invest in electric bikes at some point. Eventually drop down to one vehicle paired with two electric bikes. It's just too expensive to buy a car any more.
And that's not even discussing the damn price these days. I wasn't prepared for the price. Luckily, I found a damn minivan for $3k used with only 70k miles. I hate driving the thing, but for $3k, buckle up.
Improve public transportation with good lines and timetable. People will use them.
I've been to US and it's really hard to use public transport in places without sidewalks... Seriously, I once parked on the other side of the road from a cinema and discovered there's no way to cross the road without driving. The way everything is car focused goes way beyond poor lines and timetable. You would have to not only completely rebuild lots of infrastructure but also change culture and habits of most people living there.
Most American cities aren't built around the idea of taking public transit or even walking to your destination. There's a few that do it fairly well like Boston but there's also the issue that lots of people live in suburbs which require people to own cars to get to work.
But then car companies make less money.
Supersized SUVs aren't because Americans want big cars. They are due to poorly crafted emissions standards.
Engines are expensive and complex. Transmissions are expensive and complex. Body panels are simple and cheap. So, when manufacturers were told that they needed to tighten up emissions standards, regulators expected them to do R&D on engines and drivetrains. Instead, they just stamped longer and wider body panels, bumping their model up into a larger class that allowed greater emissions.
Don’t get me wrong, car companies absolutely jacked the price of their cars up, and lenders absolutely loaned money they shouldn’t have, but Americans bought $60k trucks with no money down on 7 and 8 year loans. FFS stop doing this shit! I bought my truck when it was 4 years old, for $16k, it’s now 13 years old, and I still have it. You probably don’t need a brand new car, and you almost definitely need to trade in the one on which you still owe money.
This is why people are saying they're not confident in the economy despite "trusted" measures like inflation, fed rate, and Dow Jones.
Because there's something more going on and no one's doing enough about it.
The low interest for years has made people far too willing to just pay it back over years. Credit, credit, credit. Who cares, you can afford it!
Now the interest rates are up again, nobody has any fucking money to buy anything. The billionaires have stolen your wallet, and are now holding out the begging bowl for more so their precious lines can go up.
Hopefully this will be the end of supersized SUVs everywhere.
I feel like the ven diagram of people who are getting behind on their car payments and people who could use any of the tactics listed in the article is essentially two non-intersecting circles. The only one that had a chance is "sell your expensive car and buy a cheap one" but that only works if you're not to far gone.
It also avoids the question of "who's going to buy your expensive used car in this market?" The middle class is shrinking every year.
No shit, all you had to do is look at the litany of patents for ways to bully and punish people who miss payments that the car manufacturers have been filing and you could have figured out that people were struggling to pay.
joke's on you, I don't have a car payment! fuck cars
Worry not: soon it will be mortgage payments.
(How bad it will be depends mainly of the proportion of people with variable rate contracts)
Do Americans predominantly buy new cars then? Seems like a really weird thing to do if your cash strapped couldn't you just get a second-hand car?
They car I've got his third hand and other than a minor electrical issue it works fine and I paid the equivalent of about 1000 dollars for it
The used market is terrible. A used crossover or sedan (Camry sized) from 2019 is like $25000. In 2020, it would have been more like $15000 for that SAME year vehicle.
New cars are limited to drive prices up. Also, in the US everyone thinks they need a pickup, Wrangler, or Bronco which are ridiculously marked up.
In 2015 I had a beater I got for $2500 from a third party used car salesman. Those seem to be gone in my area and a beater is now 3x that price.
There are big used-car buying corporations like Carvana that buy up used cars by offering better prices than dealer trade ins.
This means way less used inventory on dealer lots and higher prices across the board, so that means a lot more people need loans to buy cars, and loans are longer with higher rates.
Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck. It's pretty hard to save up enough to buy even a used car cash anyway.
A used car in the US will run you 10k easily. And that's just for the oldest stuff they're willing to sell instead of junk.
In a country where people have trouble scraping together an extra few hundred dollars for an emergency expense, that's going to hurt.
And it's not like you can just not have a car. In most of the country having a car is pretty much a requirement.
Used market used to be better-priced, but I felt it was sketchy unless you were handy or "knew a guy" who could repair it. I decided years ago to only buy new so that I knew it was well-maintained and not abused. I make payments into a savings account and pay cash, or if the best offer is a financing offer, I'll take the financing and either make payments or pay it off right away, depending on whether my savings interest is outperforming the rate of the loan. I only buy pretty basic things. Last car was a base model 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer. I'm in a 2022 Honda HR-V now. My next car will probably be something that takes advantage of the EV tax credit before it expires in 2032. Wife and I share one car, for what it's worth, since we work in the same place.
Getting a loan on a depreciating asset...
Is how most people afford vehicles. You paid for yours in cash?
If you rely on your vehicle to get to work, an old beater is a false economy.
... is normal.
Look inside any manufacturing facility. All the pieces of equipment are depreciating assets, often purchased after issuing debt.
Dealers are getting nervous. I have to be honest, I like them squirming after the last few years.
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