I mean, I was super curious what Sanders could've done if he had the chance. Instead, we got the opposite experiment.
If democrats in the US vote for stuff like Biden, then they're not voting for any radical change. Trump isn't comparable to that.
this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
1297 points (98.8% liked)
Memes
48441 readers
3816 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Americans voted for Biden because the primary system heavily favored Biden and Americans were told Biden was "more electable" than Bernie, even though every one of Bernie's policies and his messaging polled better.
If the DNC didn't put their thumbs on the scale, Bernie would have won in 2016 (or 2020), and guaranteed a democratic victory in the next election because nobody receiving free healthcare is going to vote to go back to the current system.
Bernie isn't radical, he's a social democrat, he just looks radical because the democrats are right of George W Bush right now.
I get it and I don't disagree, but- Well, I for one wouldn't mind some radical change. Just not in the direction that it is going right now. Radical in itself is nothing bad, when the status quo is as bad as it is.
If democrats in the US vote for stuff like Biden, then they’re not voting for any radical change
I don't exactly know the details, but weren't there accusations of meddling from the DNC that stoppered Sanders' chance of securing the nomination, and a belief among some that he might have won the nomination if it had been a free and fair primary process?
In other words, it's possible (though by no means certain) that your sentence above works if "democrats" means "the DNC and the establishment of the Democratic Party", but not if it means "people who by-and-large support the Democratic Party".
The Dems did some delegate fuckery where all candidates endorsed Biden because ~~Bernie~~ Trump had to be stopped at all cost, and their delegates went to Biden even if he hadn't been voted for. Kamala contributed all of her 0 delegates and got VP for being ~~a cop~~ the first to drop out iirc.
Oddly enough people say that they voted for these policies for change. It’s a mess.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Still nothing
Courts wouldn’t even let Biden offer student loan relief
They were only able to because of the way he went about it. He could have simply ordered the Department of Education to immediately forgive the loans and erase any record of the debt, and dared the SCOTUS to order him to create new debts (which he could simply ignore).
load more comments
(37 replies)
Probably, but I'd only believe that there is really nothing to be done once I see someone actually left-leaning attempt everything in their toolbox.
I believe Sanders would have tried to change as much as possible in the US. I also believe that he would have failed regarding a lot of things. Would have really liked to see him try though.
load more comments
(9 replies)
Democrats so afraid of being wrong they don't even try to do what's right.
That's not their purpose, they just need to look the part. They are comfortable in the 'my hands are tied' position. They can propose bills they know will not make it. When they have a supermajority, like they had not long ago, they are in trouble. They have no choice but to stop proposing bills and find reasons to say they are 'sabotaged'. They played this game for centuries, still works.
They can propose bills they know will not make it.
they actively work to ensure don't make it. Manchin, Sinema and others like them are greatly valued by Dems for their role as scapegoats.
They in this case being libs in liberal democracies, not democrats specifically.
One way to resolve the contradiction between the capitalist class, which the state represents, and the masses, whom the state requires to maintain power is for the masses to believe their representatives want what's best for them, but are powerless to implement it due to foreigners or nature or some other group, or are trying and it will happen some indeterminate time in the future.
load more comments
(7 replies)
When they have a supermajority, like they had not long ago, they are in trouble.
The last true supermajority I'm aware of only lasted 72 days, back in 2009. It's when the Fair Pay act was signed, Affordable Care Act, and a few different attempts to reform Wall Street. They were certainly not as life-changing as I'd like, but I'm admittedly pretty far to the Left of the average US voter.
The even stronger supermajority before that was in 1965, and that got the creation of Medicare & Medicaid, the Voting Rights Act, Freedom of Info Act, etc.
The Dems are a weak centrist party, and the leadership is center-right at best, but even so - those two times where they had a supermajority in the Senate gave us some good to at least quasi-good stuff. I'm totally on board for bashing the Democrats, but it's hard to convey the amount of damage the truly undemocratic Senate has done over the decades, and I think we can't avoid the reality that there was a lot that got done in that brief period when the Republicans couldn't stop them. The ability to block legislation in the Senate is just incredible. Things just can't get passed, unless it's something the Republicans will agree to - so it's far easier for shitty stuff to get passed. Unfortunately, there are enough right wing democrats that will go along with the shitty stuff the Republicans propose, in no small part because their constituents actually like it. We're losing the propaganda war, because those with capital have far more power to wield.
So there's a lot of problems to fix - deeply undemocratic institutions like the Senate and the Electoral College, the entirety of the GOP, weakass right-wing Democrats, and the voters themselves. Unfortunately, yeah...the interests of Capital have intervened and made sure to cripple Education and control the media landscape, so to get back to my main point, since I'm losing the thread here - I'm agreed that the Democrats are shit, but we can't ignore reality that when they've had actual full control of the Federal government, things were at least going in a decent direction.
2020 Election: The Democrats gained control of the Senate after the Georgia runoff elections in January 2021. This flipped the Senate from Republican to Democratic control. The Senate was tied 50–50, but with Vice President Kamala Harris holding the tie-breaking vote, the Democrats technically controlled the chamber.
The Supermajority: A supermajority in the Senate requires 60 votes to overcome filibusters and pass most legislation. This means that, while Democrats technically had control with 50 seats plus the Vice President's tie-breaking vote, they did not have a full 60-vote supermajority.
However, there was one brief moment when Biden’s party had a 60th vote, which occurred after Senator Al Franken resigned and was replaced with Senator Tina Smith in 2018
At best their 'accomplishments' you mention were limited, while vastly more dammage was done in other fields.
They celebrate 1 step forward while simultaniously going 3 steps back somewhere else.
The drone king was one of the worst and harmful presidents ever.
That party can not and does not want to be fixed, it's working as intended.
the Democrats technically controlled the chamber.
Correct - technically, but not practically - because they absolutely can't get anything substantial done with the Republicans and right-wing Democrats, as they didn't have a filibuster proof supermajority.
However, there was one brief moment when Biden’s party had a 60th vote, which occurred after Senator Al Franken resigned and was replaced with Senator Tina Smith in 2018
That...just isn't true though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_United_States_Congress They had at most 47 votes, right? Also...recall who was president in 2018. Certainly not enough congressional control to override the inevitable veto.
At best their ‘accomplishments’ you mention were limited, while vastly more dammage was done in other fields.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that many of the accomplishments were limited. I'm not saying they are going to save us, and while I want to wrest control from the right-wing leadership in the Democratic party, I'm not terribly optimistic that it'll happen in my lifetime. IMHO we need more coordination and cooperation on the Left to organize enough to do what the Tea Party did on the Right with the GOP...the major difference is that the folks in power in the GOP weren't ideologically opposed to the Tea Party, unlike the corporate Dems v. the "Actual Left", so maybe that's a fool's errand, especially given the power structures in place, and the inherently anti-democratic system of government re: SCOTUS, Senate, Electoral College, etc.
Look: I don't think we disagree all that much: I'm just trying to acknowledge nuance and correct misinformation. So...what do you suggest we do about the Democrats being at best speed bumps to real progress?
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
They are not afraid of being wrong. They don't actually care about your well being, they are just here to make money for their corporate friends and themselves.
load more comments
(6 replies)
Really though, beyond the Dems doing something legislatively, could you imagine if the party actually utilized it's network for direct action campaigns. Not that their donors or upper middle class members would be copacetic to any actual economic disruption. I mean christ, the Senate leader doesn't even want to let the Republicans shut down the government while they're busy dismantling it. Their current strategy is to appeal by saying they can bring back business as usual. Unfortunately they don't seem to understand that appearing ineffectual turns centrists off even more than appearing radical does.
Unfortunately they don’t seem to understand that appearing ineffectual turns centrists off even more than appearing radical does.
Does it though?
Look at how much .world or reddit downvote and deride posts critical of Democrat behavior since the beginning on the election and the only takeaway you can get is that they're in onboard with it no matter how much they hate it simply because Republicans are worse.
load more comments
(35 replies)
"You have to understand there's only so much I can do in this position"
Meanwhile, one of their former members named Huey Long: "Now I dynamite 'em out of my path"
Yall been taking the bait for years. Dems succeed on your fears. Why would they eliminate them?
load more comments
(4 replies)