this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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Manufacturing in China vs America (peertube.mesnumeriques.fr)
submitted 3 weeks ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.ml
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[–] M1ch431@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Their company is not just a software development company - they are presumably designing hardware, having it produced, and selling said hardware.

If you can't answer basic questions about the product you want produced, as a company selling hardware, then clearly you need to hire somebody who can answer those basic questions and deal with the manufacturing side of the business.

There are just very few companies left still working in manufacturing in the US, and of course they are selective about the clients they take and the projects they work on. If you can't form healthy business relationships and learn to do business without calling people that you deal with babies for having questions or requirements, then perhaps it's possible that you strongly consider contracting with another company to manufacture the hardware for your software.

It's highly inefficient and harmful to the environment to ship steel across the world. We need to stop unsustainable practices, produce products locally, and develop economies of scale that make sense instead of simply "offsetting" emissions or relying on carbon capture that is not directly integrated into our industry.

That all being said, the world could learn a whole lot from Chinese manufacturing processes.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Clearly the companies they work with China are able to figure these things out. And as he points out, Chinese companies are able to produce things with far less hassle so even massive tariffs don't make buying American attractive.

[–] M1ch431@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

The world could indeed learn a whole lot from China's efficiency, how they do business, and specifically from their advances in manufacturing.

I see their point, but I disapprove of contributing to the destruction of the environment (from lengthy transport or industry potentially not using best emergent practices) because it's "cheaper" and that's what I was trying to touch on.

I'm no fan of Trump or his policies, but I don't think it's a necessarily a bad thing that he's encouraging American industry to develop (even if his reasons for doing so are vastly different from my own) - but as they pointed out - his policies are hilariously not to much effect, if any.

If products produced in China and sold here in the US are "bad", it's solely the fault of the American capitalists who don't have a care in the world besides selling the lowest common denominator in mass quantities, with no quality control on their side, consumer support, or care for how it's made or transported. And of course those who blindly consume are responsible as well.

If products are made in China and consumed in the states, there is usually no way to have things repaired or serviced as a consumer. We also have no idea what chemicals are being used and are exposing ourselves to and we can't directly control or quantify emissions from Chinese factories besides voting with our wallets. A lot of waste is produced because nothing is built to last - not because it was made in China, but because it was all orchestrated by uncaring capitalists.

If the global supply chain was localized to geographic regions, we can greatly reduce emissions from transport. With regulation and our technological advances, we can also build new industry that is significantly less harmful to the environment and the people that work and live around it. I'm not claiming that China isn't implementing new policies or practices or trying to make light of their efforts to reduce their emissions.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Sure, I agree that domestic manufacturing capacity is desirable, and producing local is obviously better than relying on imports. What the video highlights though is just how far behind the US is in terms of industrial capacity. A serious attempt at reindustrialization would need to be far more comprehensive than just putting tariffs on imports.

[–] M1ch431@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

💯

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

you're not at all wrong and the only problem i see is that our nation's leaders have no interest in doing these things despite the lip service that suggests otherwise; they also have control of our nation's purse strings to pay experts who make them aware of the hurdles at bringing back manufacturing to the west and, since we almost entirely elect career politicians now, they can see for themselves that taking these how these actions will estrange their donors and cost them their political careers in the process.

[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

The two sets of companies have very different customer targets. (Good or bad..)

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The point here is that there are US companies that currently rely on manufacturing in China, and they are unable to find American companies that are able to do what Chinese companies are doing.

[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, but no.

The customer experience and expectations are different. American companies can do what Chinese companies are doing. American companies are unaware or unwilling to provide the same type of customer service (and likely will be at a higher price point.)

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Evidently you didn't bother watching the video because he explicitly states that customer experience is far better with Chinese companies.

[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I did watch the video and that is what I qm saying.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago

What you're saying directly contradicts what the video is saying.

[–] nom_nom@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago

Just wanted to add me .2c here since I have some real-world experience with this and no dog in this fight. We're a small computer engineering company with 1 mechanical engineer on the team. We had designed a custom chassis for one of our products (first time we had ever done this), and were looking for quotations to build a prototype. After some research and recommendations, we narrowed it down to 3 companies: A German, American and a Canadian company; all were highly reputable. We were given quotes of $15,000 - $20,000 USD, and told our CAD files need to be heavily modified because some parts of our design were 'impossible'. We were also told it would take approx. 3 months to receive the prototype. Out of curiosity, we sent the CAD files to our PCB manufacturer in China and asked if they knew anyone who could build the chassis. They quoted us $300 and said it would take a week. We paid them, and honestly, we expected to receive garbage - it wasn't. We had minor complaints but overall, esp. for $300 and a week, it was excellent.

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Well, I have a feeling that the fact that US median salary is around 5 times the Chinese is also plays a role here...

So for the same job which requires a human you have to pay ~5 times more to be made in the US, and for a black coated box like the one in the video it doesn't really matter if it will be sitting in a container for 1 week or 4 weeks, so that's a reason as well...

He speaks about in the video that the Chinese design details for him for free. But whose liability would be if that weld in the corner breaks? He will tell it was because the manufacturer used some bad welding practice, but he will have to pay for that. Good luck trying to sue a sweatshop in China from the US... The American company asks for details to cover their asses, not because they don't know, so for a design failure they can point to the designer.

I'm not a metal shop I'm a software development company

This perfectly sums up. You don't know what you are doing and the Chinese also see this, but they see it as an exploitable stupid American, who has no idea what he speaks about, so they can sell him the lowest quality product...

[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

so they can sell him the lowest quality product…

The guy in the video is working with that for 6 years and did not complain about the quality, he actually praise it a lot, if the lowest quality product is enough for their business why make it more complex?

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What is the source in this video, btw who is this guy? It's linked on Youghurt's channel, not from a primary source. He says this 6 years thing at the beginning but later he speaks about that box as a new product.

[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago

No idea.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Why do you believe the US median salary is higher than the median Chinese salary if China is the country producing the majority of what is used in the US? Chinese manufacturing is technologically advanced and high-quality, we no longer live in the 80s and 90s.

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I looked it up on the internet, e.g here it has only mean data: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country

Maybe 5 is not the exact number but it should be in that range.

I never said the quality is generally bad, but I think he misunderstands why other companies ask for details, that's my point. If you don't design something with enough details, you basically allows someone else to design it with your name on it.

Do you think Apple just sends a vague sketch about the iphone to china and let them figure out the details? As a designer you shouldn't do that, because if something wrong happens with that thing it's your liability.

He won't tell the Chinese company what kind of welding should they use, so you can be sure they will use the cheapest method, because they also need money for food. If he would design the product correctly, with requiring standards, than I guess the price would be also higher, because now the Chinese company can't use the cheaper option.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

I'm aware of the design process, Engineers frequently write specs and requirements for manufacturing in addition to schematics, dxfs, etc. My point is more to why you seem to keep a 1990s attitude towards Chinese manufacturing and seem to think a USian-made commodity would be better than a Chinese-made commodity. US manufacturing is lagging behind because the US's manufacturing has atrophied.